D&D 5E GWM, SS, CEx: updated!

ro · Oct 12, 2017

Cap'n Kobold said:
For sustained fire, it does make sense that you can get more shots out of a single hand crossbow than when you're holding one in each hand though.

(Of course it does require the acceptance of medieval-level hand crossbows as viable weapons in the first place. - But that's not at question here.)

For sure. That makes a lot more sense. But magic and lots of class abilities aren't realistic at all, so I think dual-wielding crossbows should be allowed. :-D

ro · Oct 12, 2017

vonklaude said:
Please check PHB 146/147 and you will see that Loading and Ammunition are two separate weapon properties. The original version of CEx. does not obviate Ammunition, only Loading. Errata clarifies that the bonus action shot for Hand Crossbow supplies ammo and looses a bolt.

Ah yes. I see. I find it odd that they worded things the way they did, but it makes sense. So no dual-wielding by default then, only single wielding firing multiple times. Same effect, fewer weapons. Not as fun though.

About Fireballs. In play I'm finding that casters can usually get the edge of Fireball to neatly land on foes while avoiding allies. However, in cases where Fireball is no good we're assuming Fire Bolt anyway.

I have found the same sometimes, but my melee allies do get in the way frequently, and Fire Bolt is rather less powerful. It's more difficult in tight dungeon spaces, too.

Regarding throwing a twig to martials: Wizard can threaten that amount of damage, and still know twenty other spells that do powerful stuff - movement, utility, hiding, information gathering, etc - with perhaps a dozen of those in mind ready to cast.

What ideas do you have to improve martials in general?

ro · Oct 12, 2017

By the way, I think it's silly that they have a "one-handed" hand crossbow that requires a free hand to load it. It's really a two-handed weapon, except for this edge case of shooting an already-loaded/ammunitioned one.

ro · Oct 12, 2017

Crossbow Expert

Thanks to extensive practice with the crossbow, you gain the following benefits:
- You ignore the loading quality of crossbows with which you are proficient.
- Once per turn, being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls.
- When you use the Attack action and attack with a one handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a hand crossbow you are holding as if two-weapon fighting.

or

- When two-weapon fighting you may use one handed ranged weapons, and you may use a single ranged weapon as if it were two.

Cap'n Kobold · Oct 12, 2017

ro said:
For sure. That makes a lot more sense. But magic and lots of class abilities aren't realistic at all, so I think dual-wielding crossbows should be allowed. :-D

You can dual-wield them: just treat them more like flintlocks than automatic weapons. Shoot, then reload or drop the weapon and do something more useful with that hand.
(Of course magic animated, self-drawing, -cocking and -loading crossbows may well be an option for someone wanting to play a character that uses that sort of weapon.)

ro said:
By the way, I think it's silly that they have a "one-handed" hand crossbow that requires a free hand to load it. It's really a two-handed weapon, except for this edge case of shooting an already-loaded/ammunitioned one.

Its one-handed at point of use. Fighting with a melee weapon and keeping one in your off-hand for opportunistic shooting is the original idea I think. Hand crossbows used to be a little more realistic in earlier editions, where they were similar to blowguns: - only really effective as a poison delivery method rather than an effective weapon in their own right.

ro said:
Crossbow Expert

Thanks to extensive practice with the crossbow, you gain the following benefits:
- You ignore the loading quality of crossbows with which you are proficient.

If you want the feat to enable full continuous fire from dual-wielded hand crossbows, you should put something specifically allowing that in as well.

- When you use the Attack action and attack with a one handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a hand crossbow you are holding as if two-weapon fighting.

Note that this will probably be less powerful than the version in the existing feat because specifying "as if two-weapon fighting" means that you won't get ability score to the damage in most cases.

clearstream · Oct 12, 2017

ro said:
What ideas do you have to improve martials in general?

I want to sustain statements like

"melee weapons are best in melee"
"sneak attacks and two-handed melee weapons are the biggest single-target damage dealers"
"single/few-attack classes scale differently from, but as strongly as, multiple-attack classes"
"one-handed melee balances best defenses with decent damage"
"range has value (30%): which is costed into ranged damage"
"ranged attacks usually aren't a good idea when in melee"
"casters are best at AoE and crowd control"
"martials, not casters, are best at melee"

So far, I've proposed tweaking SS with "Once per day" to address 2, 3, and 5. I suggest leaving GWM alone to address 1, 2 and 8. I've proposed tweaking CEx to address 1 and 6.

We need to find the missing one-handed melee feat, and I'm still not sure what TWF is really about (other than looking fabulous). It's possible that merging Defensive Duelist and Savage Attacker into Duelist, with the reroll on "damage" rather than "weapon's damage" is part of the answer to supporting one-handed melee. It addresses (to an extent) 1, 2, 3 and 4.

Casters? I'm not sure. Do we leave them as the bar? (Which justifies leaving GWM alone!) Someone has to be. The problem is, our fiercely heroic fantasy 2H-weapon wielder, sacrificing defense for damage, going toe-to-toe, is wholly focused on that job. Whereas... casters can do about the same damage overall (more in a sense, when they trivialise a foe with one cast) while still having incredible utility! Still, my belief is we should accept casters and find ways to help out where melee isn't working. One thing we shouldn't ever do is make casters great in melee!

So... the missing one-handed melee feat? And TWF... ? Also, Rangers are falling foul of 3. That's where I believe ideas are now needed.

ro · Oct 12, 2017

Cap'n Kobold said:
Its one-handed at point of use. Fighting with a melee weapon and keeping one in your off-hand for opportunistic shooting is the original idea I think. Hand crossbows used to be a little more realistic in earlier editions, where they were similar to blowguns: - only really effective as a poison delivery method rather than an effective weapon in their own right.

Interesting. I did not know this history.

If you want the feat to enable full continuous fire from dual-wielded hand crossbows, you should put something specifically allowing that in as well.

This isn't quite my intent, I don't think.

Note that this will probably be less powerful than the version in the existing feat because specifying "as if two-weapon fighting" means that you won't get ability score to the damage in most cases.

This is intentional as some complain that Crossbow Expert gives the benefit of the Two Weapon Fighting fighting style while allowing the ranged fighter to choose Archery to go with it.

However, limiting the feat like this does mean it should be made more powerful in other, less-combo-friendly ways. It could be expanded to allow blowguns. It could also allow a Ranger to use a shield and cast spells. (Rangers need help.) It could permit both dual-wielding hand crossbows and double-firing a single hand crossbow.

Crossbow Expert
- You ignore the loading quality of crossbows and blowguns with which you are proficient.
- You can reload a ranged weapon while holding a light weapon or shield in your other hand.
- Your shield hand is free for firing two handed ranged weapons and spellcasting.
- When two-weapon fighting you may use one handed ranged weapons, and you may use a single ranged weapon as if it were two.
- Once per turn, being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn't impose disadvantage on your ranged attacks.
- When you attack a creature within 5 feet of you, you may use a bonus action to give that creature disadvantage on opportunity attacks against you this turn.

Oofta · Oct 12, 2017

Just a quick update, I did fix the bug in my code - turns out it does change the win percentages somewhat. But the most interesting thing? The duelist/Shield master has almost double the number of wins in my scenarios. That doesn't necessarily mean anything because the mix of opponents is going to throw things off, just I'm not so sure the GWM is that overpowered. Plain old sword-and-board seems to hang in there just fine thank you very much. Even for monsters where GWM won, in some cases Duelist/Shield master was quite close. For example if fighting a troll you probably want GWM. A wood woad? Technically GWM is better, but only by 1.5% at 10th level.

Also, I did some scenarios with slightly higher AC, 10 Dex and so on and the relative numbers didn't really change much.

Anyway, the overall best result for the different styles was 14 for Shield, 8 for Great Weapon, 4 for Two Weapon. I'll probably play around with a few more options and do a longer post at some point.

I've included the table and a log.

[SBLOCK]

[tr][td]Level[/td][td]Style[/td][td]Monster[/td][td]Win[/td][/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Allosaurus[/td]
[td]51.69%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Allosaurus[/td]
[td]41.38%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Allosaurus[/td]
[td]36.82%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Cyclops[/td]
[td]0.00%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Cyclops[/td]
[td]0.00%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Cyclops[/td]
[td]0.00%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Gargoyle[/td]
[td]26.97%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Gargoyle[/td]
[td]20.95%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Gargoyle[/td]
[td]12.26%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Half-Red_Dragon_Veteran[/td]
[td]1.39%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Half-Red_Dragon_Veteran[/td]
[td]0.57%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Half-Red_Dragon_Veteran[/td]
[td]0.50%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Hell Hound[/td]
[td]48.08%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Hell Hound[/td]
[td]35.05%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Hell Hound[/td]
[td]28.03%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Ogre[/td]
[td]74.64%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Ogre[/td]
[td]64.42%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Ogre[/td]
[td]58.75%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]OwlBear[/td]
[td]12.22%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]OwlBear[/td]
[td]10.44%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]OwlBear[/td]
[td]4.99%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Stone_Giant[/td]
[td]0.00%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Stone_Giant[/td]
[td]0.00%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Stone_Giant[/td]
[td]0.00%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Troll[/td]
[td]0.03%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Troll[/td]
[td]0.00%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Troll[/td]
[td]0.00%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Wood_Woad[/td]
[td]0.03%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Wood_Woad[/td]
[td]0.00%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Wood_Woad[/td]
[td]0.00%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Allosaurus[/td]
[td]98.08%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Allosaurus[/td]
[td]97.72%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Allosaurus[/td]
[td]94.86%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Cyclops[/td]
[td]0.91%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Cyclops[/td]
[td]0.10%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Cyclops[/td]
[td]0.05%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Gargoyle[/td]
[td]99.52%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Gargoyle[/td]
[td]98.40%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Gargoyle[/td]
[td]94.00%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Half-Red_Dragon_Veteran[/td]
[td]55.09%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Half-Red_Dragon_Veteran[/td]
[td]28.15%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Half-Red_Dragon_Veteran[/td]
[td]28.01%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Hell Hound[/td]
[td]98.49%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Hell Hound[/td]
[td]94.06%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Hell Hound[/td]
[td]89.72%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Ogre[/td]
[td]99.16%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Ogre[/td]
[td]99.02%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Ogre[/td]
[td]98.50%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]OwlBear[/td]
[td]79.19%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]OwlBear[/td]
[td]76.07%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]OwlBear[/td]
[td]73.55%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Stone_Giant[/td]
[td]0.46%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Stone_Giant[/td]
[td]0.05%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Stone_Giant[/td]
[td]0.04%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Troll[/td]
[td]13.55%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Troll[/td]
[td]3.70%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Troll[/td]
[td]1.99%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Wood_Woad[/td]
[td]6.35%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Wood_Woad[/td]
[td]2.60%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Wood_Woad[/td]
[td]1.18%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Allosaurus[/td]
[td]99.50%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Allosaurus[/td]
[td]99.50%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Allosaurus[/td]
[td]97.84%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Cyclops[/td]
[td]4.69%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Cyclops[/td]
[td]1.52%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Cyclops[/td]
[td]0.70%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Gargoyle[/td]
[td]99.98%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Gargoyle[/td]
[td]99.93%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Gargoyle[/td]
[td]98.83%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Half-Red_Dragon_Veteran[/td]
[td]76.71%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Half-Red_Dragon_Veteran[/td]
[td]54.19%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Half-Red_Dragon_Veteran[/td]
[td]45.38%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Hell Hound[/td]
[td]99.45%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Hell Hound[/td]
[td]98.87%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Hell Hound[/td]
[td]96.90%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Ogre[/td]
[td]99.94%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Ogre[/td]
[td]99.94%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Ogre[/td]
[td]99.75%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]OwlBear[/td]
[td]91.85%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]OwlBear[/td]
[td]91.48%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]OwlBear[/td]
[td]86.20%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Stone_Giant[/td]
[td]2.41%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Stone_Giant[/td]
[td]0.86%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Stone_Giant[/td]
[td]0.51%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Troll[/td]
[td]27.35%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Troll[/td]
[td]16.87%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Troll[/td]
[td]13.12%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Wood_Woad[/td]
[td]16.62%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Wood_Woad[/td]
[td]12.72%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Wood_Woad[/td]
[td]8.80%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Allosaurus[/td]
[td]99.95%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Allosaurus[/td]
[td]99.94%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Allosaurus[/td]
[td]99.68%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Cyclops[/td]
[td]10.16%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Cyclops[/td]
[td]4.63%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Cyclops[/td]
[td]2.44%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Gargoyle[/td]
[td]100.00%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Gargoyle[/td]
[td]100.00%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Gargoyle[/td]
[td]99.95%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Half-Red_Dragon_Veteran[/td]
[td]90.36%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Half-Red_Dragon_Veteran[/td]
[td]78.21%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Half-Red_Dragon_Veteran[/td]
[td]68.59%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Hell Hound[/td]
[td]99.97%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Hell Hound[/td]
[td]99.86%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Hell Hound[/td]
[td]99.11%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Ogre[/td]
[td]100.00%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Ogre[/td]
[td]99.99%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Ogre[/td]
[td]99.98%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]OwlBear[/td]
[td]98.21%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]OwlBear[/td]
[td]98.14%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]OwlBear[/td]
[td]95.94%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Stone_Giant[/td]
[td]6.10%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Stone_Giant[/td]
[td]3.14%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Stone_Giant[/td]
[td]1.68%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Troll[/td]
[td]45.77%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Troll[/td]
[td]35.91%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Troll[/td]
[td]32.16%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]GreatWeapon [/td]
[td]Wood_Woad[/td]
[td]28.99%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]Shield [/td]
[td]Wood_Woad[/td]
[td]27.41%[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10 [/td]
[td]TwoWeapon [/td]
[td]Wood_Woad[/td]
[td]20.43%[/td]
[/tr]

[/SBLOCK]

FrogReaver · Oct 13, 2017

Oofta said:
Just a quick update, I did fix the bug in my code - turns out it does change the win percentages somewhat. But the most interesting thing? The duelist/Shield master has almost double the number of wins in my scenarios. That doesn't necessarily mean anything because the mix of opponents is going to throw things off, just I'm not so sure the GWM is that overpowered. Plain old sword-and-board seems to hang in there just fine thank you very much. Even for monsters where GWM won, in some cases Duelist/Shield master was quite close. For example if fighting a troll you probably want GWM. A wood woad? Technically GWM is better, but only by 1.5% at 10th level.

Also, I did some scenarios with slightly higher AC, 10 Dex and so on and the relative numbers didn't really change much.

Anyway, the overall best result for the different styles was 14 for Shield, 8 for Great Weapon, 4 for Two Weapon. I'll probably play around with a few more options and do a longer post at some point.

Still no precision?

Oofta · Oct 13, 2017

FrogReaver said:
Still no precision?

As in battle master precision? In a simulation of a champion fighter?

Not sure it would make much of a difference, but would vary depending on how many superiority dice you have available. For action surge I'm assuming only a 1 in 3 chance, so i'd probably do something similar for superiority dice so maybe 1 or 2 per fight?