5E [5e] Weapon Damage Option
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  1. #1
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    [5e] Weapon Damage Option

    I remember reading a post a while back that mentioned another game using Hit Dice to determine damage, instead of the weapon. For example, a Fighter would do d10 damage regardless of weapon type, while a Barbarian would do d12 and a Wizard would do d6.

    I don't remember which game or the specifics, but this stuck in my head. I liked the idea that a Fighter would be better with any weapon than a Wizard would be. This opened up the option for character's to choose "cool" options over optimized weapons, and solved the rapier issue. With this approach each weapon would have rider clauses that would give the player options.

    For example:
    Long Sword - Cutting, Parry, Versatile
    Shield - Bashing, Cover, Block
    Great Axe - Cutting, Cleave
    Dagger - Piercing, Thrown, Grappling
    Mace - Bashing, Stunning
    Spear - Piercing, Reach, Versatile, Thrown

    So a Fighter with a Long Sword and Shield would be able to choose to attack with the sword for cutting damage and use the shield to block the attacks of one opponent (adding half proficiency to AC as a bonus against one foe) or to bash with the shield and use the sword to parry one attack (adding half proficiency as a bonus against one attack) or drop the shield and use the sword two-handed for more damage (add half proficiency as a bonus to damage)

    On the other hand, a Fighter using two Daggers would be able to choose between throwing one or attacking with both (adding half proficiency as a bonus to damage) and be able to use his daggers within grappling distance.


    This is just a rough idea right now, and the rider clauses for the various weapons would need to be worked out, but what are your thoughts? Could something like this work for D&D? If so, what suggestions would you make?
    XP Tainted Powers, Cap'n Kobold, Satyrn gave XP for this post

  2. #2
    Some effort would be needed to balance the rider clauses, and its likely that they would become the reasons why Fighter X should use an axe (or whatever) for optimal damage.

    Its entirely workable as an idea though.

    (BTW, what is the "Rapier issue". I mean I have a number of issues with them, but not sure which you mean.)

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    I strongly dislike this idea. I love the fact that, for example, a hobgoblin wizard can do 2d6 with a maul.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap'n Kobold View Post
    (BTW, what is the "Rapier issue". I mean I have a number of issues with them, but not sure which you mean.)
    People on these forums seem to have a problem with rapier. I assume it is because they are d8 finesse weapons.

  5. #5
    It seems as if do finesse is too much for many. Especially with dual wielding it gets ugly. Especially when a gnomenor halfing does it...

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    So, how about this for starters:

    Shield - This covers all manner of shields, from Bucklers to Tower Shields. Block (as a Reaction the shield may be used to block all attacks by one enemy, giving damage reduction equal to proficiency bonus against all hits that foe lands), Cover (a small shield or buckler offers no cover, but a large shield can be used for partial cover against ranged attacks as a Reaction, and a tower shield can be used for full cover against ranged attacks as a Reaction), Bashing (as an Attack the shield may be used to cause bludgeoning damage with Strength bonus), Impaling (as an Attack a spiked shield may cause Piercing damage with no bonus).

    Heavy Blade - This covers all manner of one-handed swords that are primarily used for slashing, like the Long Sword or Broad Sword. Cutting (as an Attack the sword can be used to inflict slashing damage with Strength bonus), Impaling (as an Attack the sword may thrust for Piercing damage with Dexterity bonus), Bashing (as an Attack the sword may strike with the flat of the blade or the pommel to inflict bludgeoning damage with no bonus), Parry (as an Action the sword may be used to Parry one incoming melee attack per attack of the character by making an opposed attack roll, or may Parry one incoming melee attack as a Reaction), some may be Versatile (allowing Slashing damage with 1.5 x Strength bonus when wielded in two hands)

    Duelling Blade - This covers all manner of light one-handed swords that rely on finesse, such as a Rapier or Short Sword. Impaling (as an Attack this weapon may inflict Piercing damage with Dexterity bonus), Slashing (as an Attack this weapon may inflict Cutting damage with no bonus), Bashing (as an Attack you can punch with the pommel or guard for Bludgeoning damage with no bonus), Light Parry (as an Action the weapon may be used to Parry one incoming melee attack per attack of the character by making an opposed attack roll, or may Parry one incoming melee attack as a Reaction, may not be used to Parry Heavy weapons or attacks by creatures of Large or greater size).

    Great Blade - This covers all manner of two-handed heavy blades, such as the Great Sword or Claymore. Heavy (this blade is considered a heavy weapon and requires two hands to wield), Cutting (as an Attack this sword can be used to inflict Slashing damage with double the character's Strength bonus), Impaling (as an Attack this blade may thrust for Piercing damage with Strength bonus), Bashing (as an Attack you may used the flat of the blade or pommel to do bludgeoning damage with Strength bonus), Heavy Parry (as an Action the sword may be used to Parry one incoming melee attack per attack of the character by making an opposed attack roll, or may Parry one incoming melee attack as a Reaction, may not be used to Parry Small weapons or creatures of Small size or less).

    Brawling Blade - This covers all manner of small bladed weapons, such as the Dagger or Knife. Small (easily concealed and useable while Grappling, but allows foe the chance for an Attack of Opportunity if you attack somebody with a longer weapon ready), Thrown (as an attack this weapon may be thrown for Piercing damage with no bonus), Cutting (as an Attack this weapon may be used to inflict Slashing damage with Strength bonus), Impaling (as an Attack this weapon may inflict Piercing damage with Dexterity bonus), Light Parry (as an Action the weapon may be used to Parry one incoming melee attack per attack of the character by making an opposed attack roll, or may Parry one incoming melee attack as a Reaction, may not be used to Parry Heavy weapons or attacks by creatures of Large or greater size).

    EDIT: Improved clarity with bold text and italics, and checked spelling
    Last edited by Wulffolk; Friday, 13th October, 2017 at 10:33 AM.

  7. #7
    This seems like a decent concept overall.
    It might require a certain type of play, where actions are declared at the beginning of each round, which is good at reducing meta game combat.
    I think the "Angry GM" has an article about rerolling initiative each round that could work well with this style of combat.
    Keep up the good work.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Johnson View Post
    This seems like a decent concept overall.
    It might require a certain type of play, where actions are declared at the beginning of each round, which is good at reducing meta game combat.
    I think the "Angry GM" has an article about rerolling initiative each round that could work well with this style of combat.
    Keep up the good work.
    Thanks for the support, and for making your first post in this thread. Welcome to ENworld

  9. #9
    So taking aside all the extra 'attack action' options you've got.....I'm a little confused with the intention here.

    Firstly, A Fighter (or at least someone built for melee combat) already does more damage than a wizard - a STR bonus of 5 is equivalent to adding 2d4, plus they hit more often (attack stat), plus extra attacks. Weapon choice here seems.....mutable? And how often is a wizard going to stab/bash someone with a crappy STR, and if they have a high STR, doesn't that imply they've trained enough (D&D Gym Junkie) to hit as hard as a fighter once per 6 seconds? And if both have equally high DEXs, doesn't that just infer they are as quick as each other, and speed doesn't always equate to damage. Martial characters often get bonuses to damage as part of their class, so weapon choice seems an odd gripe.

    Second, Is the point to essentially homogenize all weapon damage down to a single dice, and then add in perks/attack actions to differentiate between them? If so - that's already inbuilt into the PHB weapon table. If you look carefully there are a number of "rules" that govern the Damage Dice size based on the properties of the weapon. So any property that benefits the user (e.g. Light or finesse), drops the damage, and anything that restricts access or use (e.g. Martial or 2-handed) increases the dice size. If every weapon you are proposing ends up with the same damage, then every property must be equally balanced, otherwise you're just giving a damage boost to certain weapons.

    [An extreme example would be the dagger. It is light, thrown, finesse, and simple and really should have a damage of 1d2 as per the PHB weapon table rules. By your reckoning, it now is a 1d12 barbarian weapon.....that's dual weildable, throwable, and works off DEX. By contrast the Greataxe is heavy, 2 handed, and martial - all restrictions - and still only 1d12. It doesn't work]

    Third, a lot of weapon choice "Issues" can be solved by using the design principles within the table to build new weapons (Essentially reskinning them), and identifying those 10% of weapons that lay outside the design parameters (I'm looking at you Handaxe!!!) to exclude or adjust them upwards (Poor trident....).

    Four, There really isn't a rapier problem (other than it's explicitly called a rapier instead of a "lighter sword"). Balance-wise, it's completely in line with 90% of the weapons in the PHB weapon table......

    Having said all of that, if you wanna just muck about with different ideas, go for it. You don't need some kind of perceived excuse to do so....

  10. #10
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    As a radical idea, what about dropping str/dex bonus to damage and theb rolling the weapon dice AND the class hit die? A STR bonus of 5 works out to about 1d10, same as a fighters hit die.

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