Lawful Good Alignment and Roleplaying

TenseAlcyoneus · Aug 6, 2003

I recently had a good, friendly argument with my DM about Lawful Good characters. Here's how it started.

We have an impish little Gnome named Gimble in our party who has been secretly working for a rival organization. He has been trying to undermine some of our activities as part of the Harpers. Now, the Gnome once booby trapped our rooms at night. This prevented us from helping a fellow NPC Harper who was killed, and his young daughter killed too. Now, the Gnome didn't know his organization was going to do this, but as part of his mission against us, he was an unwitting accomplice to the murders. We later all found out about this.

Now, we also have a Lawful Good Monk who was a close friend of the killed girl. My DM thinks that the Monk is the MOST likely to forgive and forget; but, I think the Lawful Good Monk is the LEAST likely to forgive and forget -- mainly because of his alignment.

What do you think?

BiggusGeekus@Work · Aug 6, 2003

TenseAlcyoneus said:
We have an impish little Gnome named Gimble in our party

Heh. According to Devis that's half your problem right there!

Anyway ...

Lawful Good charcters are hampered by their alignment as much as Chaotic Neutral ones. To me, the key factor here is not the alignment but the profession. What does the monk's order have to say about such things?

Just my two cents.

root · Aug 6, 2003

I would say that being Lawful Good doesn't mean you are some push over who gets along with everybody, including that evil overlord across the way. But then neither do I think that the Lawful Good character will just outright kill the gnome, but instead do everything he or she can to bring the gnome to justice and stand trial for his crimes. Might she push for the death penalty if one exists, very possible since this was a very close friend and all, but at least the decision will have been made by law and not some personal grievance.

TenseAlcyoneus · Aug 6, 2003

It's a magical order. Why do you discount alignment?

Gregor · Aug 6, 2003

It's a magical order. Why do you discount alignment?

I dont think he's discounting alignment per se, but simply putting it into perspective. The organization or profession of the lawful good monk is going to be the source of his notions and ideas of law and order. Thus, the monk will most likely behave in a manner analagous to his order.

I dont want to put words in BG's mouth....but that is what I got from his post.

cheers,

Trickstergod · Aug 6, 2003

Out of all the good alignments, at least, I've always been under the impression Lawful Good is the least likely to forgive. After all, out of all three good alignments, it has the strongest, most disciplined, most solid moral code, which is much easier to offend than any other alignment, paladin or not. Now, if you don't have anyone else of a good alignment in the party, or about, sure, the monk will be the most likely to forgive and forget - to a degree, being Good is about forgiveness, and hoping for the best in people.

However, the Lawful aspect of the alignment infers a general disdain for deception, for reasons exactly like what happened. After all, while the gnome may have been well meaning, it still stands that his deception got someone killed. A Neutral Good character will realize that the gnome had good intentions, and a Chaotic Good one will know that sometimes subterfuge is a necessity (particularly wherer tyranny and oppression reign), but a Lawful individual, in my opinion, has a strong sense of seeing every injustice made right in some way. Lawfulness also implies being judgmental; everything and everyone has their proper place, after all. A preponderance towards being judgmental means difficulty in being able to forgive and forget, in my opinion. Once you've shown yourself to have certain traits, and act in a certain way, you're going to keep acting like that, as it's the sort of role you fill, at least as far as I see a Lawful mindset.

As said, however, any Good type is going to be more forgiving than just about any non-Good type, so if that's the criteria, than, yeah, I'd say the monk will be quite forgiving. But in comparison to a Neutral Good character, or a Chaotic Good one, the Lawful Good monk is going to be the least likely to forgive. The gnome may not have known what was going to happen, but it still stands that he was a weasely little deceptive SOB, and until the gnome did something to indicate he's not, I'd say your average Lawful Good individual isn't just going to forgive and forget. Not until the gnome proves himself worthy of forgiveness.

DanMcS · Aug 6, 2003

Because alignment doesn't predict behavior so much as measure past behavior. For humanoids at least, saying he's LG just means he has acted LG in the past, but if he were to suddenly slaughter the gnome in his sleep, it would be surprising but not impossible.

For something with an inherent attachment to an alignment, such as a celestial or a fiend, you would need to consider how alignment would define their actions, but for a human, all you've got is his action to go by after the fact.

BiggusGeekus@Work · Aug 6, 2003

TenseAlcyoneus said:
It's a magical order. Why do you discount alignment?

I don't discount it. I just see other factors being more relevant.

Lawful good can mean:

* The character believes the law of the land serves all for the greater good.
* The character thinks the law of the land SHOULD serve all for the greater good.
* The character does not believe in greater good, that what is good for one is good for all and the law is the final judge of that.
* The character believes that there is an ideal of good that the law should strive to achieve
* The character hopes that all will persue goodness on their own and that the law is but a reminder
* The character wants everyone to aspire to goodness and that the law should protect those seeking that enlighted state.

Alignments are pretty flexible. However the monk joined a monastic order. That order is going to have teachings about what they believe in. Unless its just a kung-fu club (totally fine, by the way). But most monastic orders are going to have pretty well thought out teachings on mercy, compassion, justice, and how the monk fits into the big picture.

Again, just my two cents.

Zogg · Aug 6, 2003

I think he would neither forgive nor forget - the monk is most likely to apprehend the gnome and bring him to justice by whatever means the law of the land dictates (ie., bring him to the proper authorities, to the Harpers, what have you).

The monk shouldn't seek revenge, he should probably feel a controlled anger and a sorrow at such a horrible evil taking place.

DonAdam · Aug 6, 2003

I'm the DM in question. I'm not going to get involved in the discussion (I think we beat it in to the ground last night, at my prodding, and I think it was a good thing to do) but I will throw this out there for the discussion (since it hasn't been mentioned, but it has been asked about):

The monk's order is the Shining Hands of Azuth, which is actually a lawful neutral order. The monk started off as lawful neutral, but after a few sessions everyone in the party agreed that he was acting far more lawful good and we switched him over.