5E I like magic (It's MAGIC!), and I like to cast spells as a ... - Page 4

Poll: I like to cast spells as a ...

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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbwjm View Post
    Lately, I've been enjoying casting spells as my Eldritch Knight. I know I only get a few spell slots but it makes the choice of casting that much more important.
    Bah! You fool!

    I will make a champion with magic initiate and ritual casting and pretend to be Gandalf!
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mephista View Post
    Here's the thing. I wrote a comment about MY EXPERIENCE, and I was tired of the style. You jumped in and started talking about how I'm being unfair or incompetent playing it. You started writing about theoretical expected rests (so, yes, you were talking theory for at least part, so getting defensive about that is silly), which are unrealistic in actual game play.
    Unrealistic, except for pretty much every campaign I've seen and it conforms with the recommendations from the book. Or are you experiencing 6 or more combats per LR with no SRs a lot? Where the theory breaks down is typically in the one combat days in which resources are abundant... Less so for a warlock than a wizard, but still plentiful.[quote]You then started talking about magic items somehow fixing, which are not something I, and many others, can count on. Hey, did you know I've actually played in games with no magic items? Even as a warlock? [quote/]Yes, if you deviate from the recommendations and guidelines of the game substantially, it makes a difference. However, that is a bit like complaining that wizards are underpowered because a DM has no scrolls in the game or fighters are underpowered because the only weapons in the game are daggers.
    From the beginning, you just shouted down my personal experience and feelings, as if its somehow wrong, implying I'm either not playing right, or I'm being cruel. And that's just BS.
    I said they were either misinformed or unfair. Read the threads and guides on warlock and you'll find a lot of people that disagree with your statements. I can and have stated an example that conflicts with your experience. Also, as your assessment is based upon experiences where you deviated significantly from the guidelines... an unfair label seems to have merit.
    I am neither unfair nor misinformed. I don't know if you have an axe to grind or whatever, but don't go jumping at someone just because they're tired of a class.
    If you talk down about something "just because" you're tired of it, you're not really assessing the merits anymore. I do not doubt you had a bad experience. In your shoes, I'd have looked for options to expand the breadth of my character's abilities, and spoken to the DM to note that the lack of items in the game was not in line with the guidelines in the book and gas a disproportionate impact on a class like warlock. You don't need to ask the DM to add items, but asking the DM to consider it and think about options is far from unreasonable.

    A warlock in a game that follows the guidelines in the books that is spamming Eldritch Blast in key rounds of combat consistently is missing out on other options. You get fewer spells than a sorcererer, wizard or cleric. However, you have more 'powerful' spells than any other class. And few classes have the ability to cast spells an unlimited number of times... much less getting it at second level.

    There is a lot of guidance out there in various threads that address your concerns. I'm not a lone voice here. If you post your PC in the right places, there are people that would be happy to make more suggestions to help you have a better experience.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mephista View Post
    I went with warlock, since that's my usual go-to class. But I'm actually kinda burned out on the current incarnation - too much eldritch blasting, not enough other things.
    Eh, I look at Eldritch Blast for a Warlock the same way I look at a fighter's primary weapon. It's their fallback attack when they don't have something more interesting to do with their spells and invocations.

    In many ways, a Warlock can be seen an Arcane version of a fighter.

    Most of the time using their strong primary attack, mixed up with abilities/spells that mostly recharge on a short rest so they can use one or two "specials" on almost every fight.

    A warlock that relies 90% of the time on eldritch blast+ agonizing blast and Hex is like the Champion fighter - it's an effective play style that keeps things simple. But you can do much more with a Warlock if you really want to.
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  4. #34
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    When I play instead of DMing, I play as a rogue or fighter, but on the occasion that I play a magic user, it's generally Wizards. I mean, wizards are pretty cool.

  5. #35
    I voted Wizard, because I like having as spell list that's varied and tailored to the actual adventure I'm on, not having a super-generic list of spells that never changes. I like saying "Oh, we are going to be facing threat X? Let me go buy some scrolls that will help us and add that to my repertoire."

    Despite that, I am currently playing a GOO Tome-lock. It's fun, but it's only tolerable because I took the ritual invocation and my DM let me take the GOO spells as "in addition to spells known", rather than merely add it to the spell list I can choose from. So I actually usually have a spell that's useful to the situations we find ourselves in. The 2 slots/SR (plus 1 slot/LR from my Rod) is restrictive, but I am not at all disadvantaged relative to the wizard in the group. My Invocations and Eldritch Blast more than make up the difference. Plus my high Charisma-Skills gives me plenty to do in social encounters.

    But if I wasn't a Tome-lock with rituals and bonus spells I'd hate it and wouldn't even consider it a full spellcaster class.

  6. #36
    I'm not sure how using Eldritch Blast and Agonizing Blast is different then a Paladin going sword and board with Dueling or a Fighter going greatsword with Great Weapon Fighting. They are all class features designed to work together.

    "You're going to take +2 to every swing? That's dumb and you're obviously a power gamer."

    "Really dude? You're going to swing that sword again? And reroll the 1s and 2s? That's so lame. Why you can't be more creative?"

    "I don't care if you're a Barbarian. You should take Magic Initiate and kill everything with Poison Spray. Otherwise you're just doing the same thing as everyone else."

  7. #37
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  8. #38
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    The 'Eldritch Blast is the same as a weapon' argument doesn't account for expectations. If the eldritch blast just deals damage, then there is little functional difference between it and an archer and that is not what you want to feel when playing a spellcaster.

    We expect weapon attacks to do damage and not much else. A spell attack feels like it should do more - and is one of the reasons they have invocations that allow it to do more. I didn't hard on how versatile Eldritch Blast can be because I tend not to push it to the limits, but (especially with the new Invocations from XGtE), it can do a lot of interesting things in versatile new ways. Pushing someone 10 to 40 feet, pulling them 10, dealing damage around them - all of these invocation augmentations can be very interesting to use.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgsugden View Post
    The 'Eldritch Blast is the same as a weapon' argument doesn't account for expectations. If the eldritch blast just deals damage, then there is little functional difference between it and an archer and that is not what you want to feel when playing a spellcaster.
    Perhaps adjust your expectations then?

    Or play a caster that works more in accordance to your expectations.

    We expect weapon attacks to do damage and not much else. A spell attack feels like it should do more - and is one of the reasons they have invocations that allow it to do more. I didn't hard on how versatile Eldritch Blast can be because I tend not to push it to the limits, but (especially with the new Invocations from XGtE), it can do a lot of interesting things in versatile new ways. Pushing someone 10 to 40 feet, pulling them 10, dealing damage around them - all of these invocation augmentations can be very interesting to use.
    That was true even before XGtE. If you want to be an Eldritch Blast specialist you can. Or you can focus on doing other things with your warlock and have Eldritch Blast as the reliable backup to whatever else you are trying to do. Or ignore it altogether (although Eldritch Blast is hard to pass up if you are a warlock).
    Last edited by Caliban; Tuesday, 14th November, 2017 at 11:45 PM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caliban View Post
    Perhaps adjust your expectations then? Or play a caster that works more in accordance to your expectations.
    Expectations are based upon instinct informed by experience. You don't just change expectations. People have a natural tendency to think that magic is wonderous and does... stuff. Lots of wild weird stuff. When all it does is damage, it is a bit of a letdown.
    That was true even before XGtE. If you want to be an Eldritch Blast specialist you can. Or you can focus on doing other things with your warlock and have Eldritch Blast as the reliable backup to whatever else you are trying to do. Or ignore it altogether (although Eldritch Blast is hard to pass up if you are a warlock).
    You can easily balance the two approaches as well.

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