5E So Was That Z Fellow right?
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  1. #1

    So Was That Z Fellow right?

    Way way back in 2014 (around October IIRC) on the WOtC boards I pointed out a few things in 5E were OP and that certain things did not work that well. At the time a few posters disagreed with me and a few of them had the attitude that 5E was perfect etc- the new generation of edition warriors I suppose that I had already seen 3 times pr so already. I don't really have a favourite edition of D&D as such, the top 3 are probably 5E, 2E and B/X aka modern, options, simplicity. We were playing around twice a week at least with 5 games as a record, 7 players with 2 rotating DMs (so 1 DM+ 6 players). We used feats and multiclassing after playing Basic D&D and hit level 13/14 in both games fairly fast (2-3 months). My observations were.

    1. Some feats are OP, Sharpshooter and Great Weapon Fighter would be on this list, I would probably add healer feat these days.

    2. Feats in general break the game (in the PCs favour). Big offenders here are warcaster, resilient: con, and healer as they tens to negate the concentration mechanic and pacing of the gamer.

    3. Dex is stupidly OP unless feats are used (assuming you are melee, there is still sharpshooter).

    4. Bless was OP/broken.

    5. The encounter guidelines did not work that well past level 10 or so (or 7 perhaps).

    6. High level 5E was stupidly easy even ignoring the encounter guidelines with combats X5 deadly.

    We did inadvertently stumble on some of the most powerful archetypes early on- light/life cleric, lore bard, diviner, paladins, battlemaster fighter but we also had war clerics, hunter rangers, rogues, champion fighters. We had magic weapons of course but early on most of them were from LMoP although I made the mistake of placing a +2 hand crossbow.

    Now on ENworld and other sites the same complaints tend to come up again and again. So here we are 3 years later, was I right, wrong somewhere in the middle?
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  2. #2
    As a fellow Z I'm inclined to say yes, you were right

    Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

  3. #3
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    I think it is important to be critical of all editions of D&D, but these are not huge problems for our group in isolation (except for point 5). We dont optimize and play the game in a light way - but I can see of these issues combined could be a problem. We do have our complaints about the number of encounters that we should do but this is hard baked into the system where different classes have widely different pacing (long vs short rests) - this isnt just a problem about guidelines.
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  4. #4
    Keep in mind that vocal minorities are the biggest source of ôsame complaints that come up again and againö.
    Last edited by Iry; Wednesday, 15th November, 2017 at 09:24 PM.
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  5. #5
    I think that removing SS and GwM make a domino effect on your list of complaints.
    Without these two feats
    bless is now a good spell,
    ranged attack and dex are nice,
    Encounter tables are not so bad.
    Last edited by Krachek; Wednesday, 15th November, 2017 at 02:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zardnaar View Post
    Way way back in 2014 (around October IIRC) on the WOtC boards I pointed out a few things in 5E were OP and that certain things did not work that well. At the time a few posters disagreed with me and a few of them had the attitude that 5E was perfect etc-
    Stopped reading there.
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    Laugh Parmandur, Shiroiken, Ath-kethin, renbot, Riley laughed with this post

  7. #7
    Nope. Dead wrong.

    But worst of all...
    Boring post.


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  8. #8
    I never had problems with any of the items on the list on a level 1 - 20 adventure path with 5-8 players spanning 3 years. All of the encounters were converted to 3.5 to 5e using the encounter building guidelines. One of the PCs with GWM did massive damage (especially with foresight), but that caused just as many problems when dominated or frightened or when they whiffed. The final encounters were brutally hard, although the party generally pulled through. Death did happen, although few were permanent. Any imbalances that cropped up were easily adapted to within a session or two.
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  9. #9
    Is anyone ever truly "right" out here in the churning cauldron of uniquely like-minded opinions and treadmill revolutionists?
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapnZapp View Post
    As a fellow Z I'm inclined to say yes, you were right

    Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app
    oh noes it the Z nation. Shoot them in the head. the Zombies have risen. the Zombies have risen. and they trying to take over the game. d10s and d20s living together. Mass Insanity

    Do know what you get when you mix a d10 with a d20?
    .....
    Answer later.
    Laugh CapnZapp laughed with this post

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