D&D 5E Treantmonk's Guide to Everything Xanathar

jgsugden · Mar 16, 2018

CapnZapp said:
Was there a "God Wizard's guide to XGE"?

The link at the start of the thread is it, generally. He addresses XTE generally, but the issues most relevant to wizards reflect his 'God Wizard' / Controller approach.

Personally, I found very little of XTE to be a good fit for my wizard. War Magic isn't likely to be a subclass I choose, and there are only a few (new) spells in XtE that would make it into my character's spellbook, much less be ones I choose to prepare. However, there are some good spells and he discusses them from a God Wizard perspective in his Google Doc.

rettekram · Mar 16, 2018

Thanks for doing this! I always love your insight on the material.

One question: Would the College of Swords rank higher if you went with a range build instead of melee? Apart from using melee weapons as spellcasting focuses, none of the other abilities require a melee weapon (e.g. flavor Blade Flourishes with a bow as Trick Shots). If you dip Fighter for Archery Fighting style you can get a better Arcane Archer than the Arcane Archer. Thoughts?

Ancalagon · Mar 17, 2018

TwoSix said:
I would say Hexblade 1/Swords X is probably better overall, because Bard is overall one of the best classes in the game, and Hexblade 1 is probably the best dip in the game. (Second best is Hexblade 2.)

But, Hexblade single class does have some advantages. The relative utility of single class hexblade depends on how much you value them.

1) Faster spell and feat progression. Being a spell level above at 3, 5, 7, 9, etc. isn't a huge deal, but it isn't nothing. Likewise, being one level ahead for feats doesn't hurt, especially if your game progresses relatively slowly.

2) Short rest versus long rest. If your game features lots of short rests relative to long rests, warlock becomes more attractive, even with Swords bards getting more BI dice. I'd rather have two top level spells over 5 BI dice.

3) High level warlock spells and invocations. Eldritch Smite, Improved Pact Weapon, Lifedrinker, Tomb of Levistus are all warlock only, and all are very good boosts to offense a Sword bard isn't going to get. Likewise, Shadow of Moil(!), Hunger of Hadar, Banishment, Hunger of Hadar, and Cone of Cold are all spells the Warlock has access to that the Sword bard would have to spend his two precious magical secrets on, and not until level 11.

My next character is going to be a level 8 Hexblade, and I thought long and hard about going Hexblade 1/Swords 7 instead. But being able to pull off the Shadow of Moil/Elven Accuracy/Greatweapon Master combo right at level 8 was simply too tempting.

Thank you for the reply. A few comments:

Short/Long rest: The advantage of a college of sword + hexblade dip is that either rest gives you a lot - a short rest gives you your warlock slots *and* your BI dice back, while the long rest gives you everything.

Blasting spells (like cone of cold): Awesome... but while you blast, you can't fight. If blasting is the goal, get a sorcerer or invocation wizard.

Tomb of Levistus: This is such a cool invocation but... the action economy *SUCKS*. You use it, great... and you lose a full turn. Given how many fights only last 2-4 rounds... terrible.

Shadow of Moil: Yeah that's pretty awesome

Improved pact weapon: This is only worth if you can't manage to get a magical weapon

Eldritch Smite. Intriguing. You burn precious, precious slots to do more sword damage. It's pretty cool (and kind of anti-paladinish) but is it really the best use of the slot?

Lifedrinker is awesome, but it's quite high level...

You also have to spend one of your precious invocations to get your second attack. College of bard gets that for free.

And lastly, there are some good spells a bard could get - stinking cloud, fear to name two. Where they are lacking are cheap, low level defensive magic, and a hexblade dip can give you that... combined with a defensive use of BI dice (which also boost damage) and you're doing pretty good.

Paul Farquhar · Mar 17, 2018

I actually see Tomb of Levistus being used more outside combat. It could save you from an otherwise deadly fall or trap.

But anyway, "If blasting is the goal, get a sorcerer or invocation wizard" is a bit of a silly statement. You are making the situation too binary. you MUST CHOOSE to be either a pure caster or a pure magic-assisted fighter. If you choose a character who can do either as the situation demands you are playing the game wrong.

Brando · Mar 19, 2018

Thanks!

Ancalagon · Mar 19, 2018

Paul Farquhar said:
But anyway, "If blasting is the goal, get a sorcerer or invocation wizard" is a bit of a silly statement. You are making the situation too binary. you MUST CHOOSE to be either a pure caster or a pure magic-assisted fighter. If you choose a character who can do either as the situation demands you are playing the game wrong.

This is a fair point, and flexibility *is* nice. But it does result in a "Jack of all trades, master of none" situation.

All I was trying to point out is that the blasting spells are nice but they don't help you gish very much.

Raydor Chronicler · Mar 19, 2018

Treantmonk, I think you should take another look at the Gloom Stalker Ranger’s Level 15 ability, Shadowy Dodge. It’s similar to the Light Cleric, it’s true—one crucial improvement here is that you can use this ability whenever. It’s not limited to your wisdom modifier, only your reaction. That’s a significant improvement. Not only that, you don’t have to be able to see the creature, it doesn’t need to be within 30 feet, and it still works if the opponent is immune to being blinded (although would it be effective against opponents with truesight? RAW could be clearer here).
Love your guides! Write more!

jgsugden · Mar 19, 2018

Ancalagon said:
This is a fair point, and flexibility *is* nice. But it does result in a "Jack of all trades, master of none" situation.

All I was trying to point out is that the blasting spells are nice but they don't help you gish very much.

I disagree. One common problem of the melee character is fodder blocking - having to push through a wall of fodder before you can get to the bad guy. Blasting spells released on your turn that clear a path can be great help for a gish. Now, as a spellcaster, I tend to achieve this for my melee allies by readying a fireball to clear fodder that I release on their turn, but a Gish can do it on their own turn.

When I gish, if I have a full spell contingent (ala Bladesinger or Bard) rather than just a few warlock spells or EK spells, I do make sure I have one or more path clearers.

Ancalagon · Mar 19, 2018

jgsugden said:
I disagree. One common problem of the melee character is fodder blocking - having to push through a wall of fodder before you can get to the bad guy. Blasting spells released on your turn that clear a path can be great help for a gish. Now, as a spellcaster, I tend to achieve this for my melee allies by readying a fireball to clear fodder that I release on their turn, but a Gish can do it on their own turn.

Ok, this is interesting - I hadn't considered that angle, and I will have to think about it.

When I gish, if I have a full spell contingent (ala Bladesinger or Bard) rather than just a few warlock spells or EK spells, I do make sure I have one or more path clearers.

so... for different reasons, you agree with me that blasting spells on a pure hexblade is not a good idea?

jgsugden · Mar 19, 2018

Ancalagon said:
...so... for different reasons, you agree with me that blasting spells on a pure hexblade is not a good idea?

I makes sure I have the path clearer (which isn't always damage, but often is) when I have a lot of slots, but when I have fewer it is one of several options I would consider. A hexblade may have some damage spell prepared, but will rarely cast it given the slot limitations. An EK gets so few known spells that it is hard to make room for a blasting spell, but not impossible. Other builds will have their own concerns,

For 5E I tend to find that gish builds tend to focus on a few spells they cast often - and then some circumstantial spells they cast once in a blue moon to fill a particular need. I think for any gish that doesn't have a full spell progression, they likely only have damage spells as one of these highly conditional spells, and only if they have it in their available spells and if they have enough prepared spells to make room for it.

D&D 5E Treantmonk's Guide to Everything Xanathar

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