Has this happened to You?

Anavel Gato · Aug 12, 2003

On sunday my group meet and we were playing everything was okay. The resident rule lawyer was chiming in (as is par for the course) nothing really involving me at the time. So we are playing, now mind you I am just a player, not the DM, the rule lawyer is also a player, I cast mage armor, a round later I cast mirror image. The confrontation lasts only about two rounds after I cast the mirror image. Next we move into the cave. I am not even barely in the cave I remind the dm I have a mage armor on, mirror image and now I am casting invisibility. The rule lawyer says, no your mirror image is gone. Now, I don't always read duration and pretty much guess when it is over and if anything i cut my spells early. This pissed me off though, because he continued, "it only lasts rounds, I am pretty sure." So, I crack the PHB and look do the math, and say to him did it take 30 rounds from the time I cast it to us getting to this point. The dm said you probably looked around some, so i took 10 rounds off the duration.
Later, the rule lawyer was set his character sheet off to the side of himself and when it was his turn looked everywhere, but next to him, I pointed to it and said nothing.
I guess my deal is that if you can't take care of your character sheet do you have any right to question my character about something like spell duration???

Who else has had such a run in or has just felt like kicking his rule lawyer right in his.....head.....

enworldatemylogin · Aug 12, 2003

Well the rules lawyering has happened to me and the losing track of a character sheet or other game related article as well, but not quite in the same situation and certainly not during the same game.

I have found the best way to shut up a rules lawyer is to learn a rule better than him and when they make a mistake, you correct them. I have done that as well.

Lela · Aug 12, 2003

I recently had a Rules Lawyer "correct" me on the habbits and dogma associated with Sune (FR, Goddess of Love, Lust, and Beauty). He seemed to have forgotten that I had introduced him the goddess and mine may be the only description he has of her (in any case, I've certainly read more about her than he). He also seemed to have forgotten that I was running a Homebrew world that only uses the FR panthion and could do what I wanted (not that I couldn't if it wasn't Homebrew). Finally, he seemed to have neglected that different worshipers may follow different aspects of a deity, giving priority to what they feel they want.

It also annoyed me that he didn't have complete knowlage of what was going on. But I can't blame him for that, seeing as he had missed the session.

Drawmack · Aug 12, 2003

I find the best way to deal with rules lawyers is this. You cannont question another player or the dm without a refernce to the page number and book and the book open to said page and your finger on the reference prior to stating the disagreement.

Oh BTW: players are only allowed to bring the PHB and class books to the table and they are not allowed to use my books during the game.

diaglo · Aug 12, 2003

yeah, i hate it when other players forget to look up their own spell durations.

nsruf · Aug 12, 2003

Anavel Gato said:
Who else has had such a run in or has just felt like kicking his rule lawyer right in his.....head.....

What's the one thing (reminding you of a rule) got to do with the other (misplacing the sheet)? I fail to see the connection. Sounds more like you can't stand the guy for other reasons and are now collecting "evidence".

And regarding those issues:

As a DM, I actually expect my players to know spell durations and other effects. When in doubt, look up a spells when you are casting it. If you can't keep such things straight, better play a non-caster.

And for misplacing a sheet or book, that's common at my games because there is just so frigging much stuff on the table

Anavel Gato · Aug 13, 2003

Re: Re: Has this happened to You?

nsruf said:
What's the one thing (reminding you of a rule) got to do with the other (misplacing the sheet)? I fail to see the connection. Sounds more like you can't stand the guy for other reasons and are now collecting "evidence".

What i was alluding to was if he can't keep track of his 2 pieces of paper (tangible, physical--right next to him his own character) why is he worried about when my spell ends?

Also, to a point that lela had made, " It also annoyed me that he didn't have complete knowlage of what was going on. But I can't blame him for that, seeing as he had missed the session."

To give more say to the players and to let everyone in the group have a say in our "homebrew" world we have been building up to a world shaking battle...Each player has know for sometime this is coming. We recently had a new player join so, as I was getting things ready for the game, I asked the rules lawyer (since it was only myself, him and the new player) to tell her about what has been happening since her PC would have an idea. He got everything all kinds of messed up...I don't understand is this the way of the rules lawyer?
I get along with him outside of the game and 98% of the time during the game. So its not like I dislike the guy. I guess i dislike a person who questions things about my character who puts no thought into story about his own character...epic confrontation I suppose---the person who loves the story vs. the person who loves the rules...

Mista Collins · Aug 13, 2003

What we have here is a classic case of a roll-player vs. a role-player. A roll-player is more interested in the rules and the rolling of the dice than actually creating a character with a personality.

As for loosing a character sheet. It happens. During the sessions I DM we constantly have things passed back and forth (books, notes, paper, food, etc.) and misplacing a character sheet happens.

But my suggestion would be to send the White Bunny of Death after this guy and everything will be set straight.

MarauderX · Aug 13, 2003

I think in most groups other players let things slide as long as the DM doesn't call them on it. It's kinda funny to have a player that is so competitive that he points out where others ought to be held back by the rules in abilities and such, ultimately hurting the party. It's just goofy, and after all the DM should get to know the rules just well enough to counter the rules lawyers and get on with the game.

Nifft · Aug 13, 2003

Especially since the introduction of 3.5, I know that I'm not up on every rule. Though I try my best, it helps when players know the rules well, too.

I refuse to let rules get in the way of my plot, though -- if the new Move Earth doesn't look & sound the way that my bad guy's dramatic-polt-advancement spell was described, well, the bad guy must have cast a violated, corrupted, vile, perverted, and nastified version of the spell.

-- Nifft