5E Mental prison; power creep, typo or working as intended
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  1. #1

    Mental prison; power creep, typo or working as intended

    The new spell in Xanatars guide, mental prison, made me do a double take.

    First, it does 5d10 psychic damage with or without a INT save.

    If the save is failed, it imposes the restrained status on the target for the duration of the spell...no repeat saves per turn.

    Lastly, if the target moves or attacks, they receive 10d10 damage and the spell ends. The movement does not need to be voluntary, so there are many ways to achieve this (grapple + drag, thorn whip cantrips, etc). Or leave the target restrained and play piata with it until it decides to move or attack back.

    Any one of these features would make a really good spellhaving all three seems obvious overkill.

    Thoughts?


    ive only skimmed through Xanathars guide, but it looks like there are a bunch of really strong/imbalanced features. Eldritch Strikes auto prone feature is like super gravy
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  2. #2
    I was about to reply with the response 'well, that's in keeping with really high level spells' then checked it out and saw it was 6th level.

    Disintegrate should be the standard here. Does 0/75 damage.

    This does 27.5/55+55.

    I have noticed some extreme outliers in Xanathar's too.

    The worst example so far is the Hexblade. It is ridiculously overpowered compared to every other patron. None of them are even close and the vast majority of its abilities don't even use a weapon so it works with all Warlock types.

  3. #3
    I originally was going to mention the Hexblade, but as so many people are falling over themselves in love with the class I figured Id give it a pass

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Rexwell View Post
    I originally was going to mention the Hexblade, but as so many people are falling over themselves in love with the class I figured Id give it a pass
    I despise the hexblade on so many levels.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Rexwell View Post
    I originally was going to mention the Hexblade, but as so many people are falling over themselves in love with the class I figured Id give it a pass
    People like power.

    One patron gives telepathy 30ft.

    The other gives a 1/short rest Hex that adds 2-4dmg per attack, increased crit range, and healing. As well as medium armour, shields, and martial weapons. As well as Cha to damage if you want to bother using a weapon.

    Either the Super Hex or the Medium Armour/Shields would be far above the power level that patrons give. Getting both of them is absurd.

    They also get another powerful ability at 6th. The whole subclass is ridiculously overpowered.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ad_hoc View Post
    People like power.

    One patron gives telepathy 30ft.

    The other gives a 1/short rest Hex that adds 2-4dmg per attack, increased crit range, and healing. As well as medium armour, shields, and martial weapons. As well as Cha to damage if you want to bother using a weapon.

    Either the Super Hex or the Medium Armour/Shields would be far above the power level that patrons give. Getting both of them is absurd.

    They also get another powerful ability at 6th. The whole subclass is ridiculously overpowered.
    Well, munchkins might think like that. I don't shy away from power gaming and optimization, but I usually start with a concept and roll with it. This time round, it's a telepath sorlock, and I'm sticking with it. It so happens there's also a pure warlock in the party, and he chose GOO as well. Fun over power, who would've thought?
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by andargor View Post
    Well, munchkins might think like that. I don't shy away from power gaming and optimization, but I usually start with a concept and roll with it. This time round, it's a telepath sorlock, and I'm sticking with it. It so happens there's also a pure warlock in the party, and he chose GOO as well. Fun over power, who would've thought?
    What does this have to do with my post?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ad_hoc View Post
    What does this have to do with my post?
    I will quote the relevant part:

    Quote Originally Posted by ad_hoc View Post
    People like power.
    The rest of your post seems to imply that one has to be dumb not to choose Hexblade, the overpowered one, and I provided an example of the opposite. That's what it has to do with your post.

  9. #9
    The Hexblade is good but not as strong as some people think. When you factor in action economy it is not that crazy as it seems. the main benefit is it removes the "MAD penalty" of weapon based warlocks. The level 6 ability doesnt scale at all, and the level 10 uses a reaction for a 50% chance at success. the level 14 merely saves action economy to allow for other uses of a bonus action. If you are playing a melee character odds are you have other uses for a bonus action and losing the action to use the hexblade ability simply replaces Hex as a spell. albeit it is stronger than Hex but then, that is the core ability of the class with only one use per short rest unti you gain a more limited version (no healing) at 14 that can spread. Honestly the level 6 and 10 abilities are just barely above fluff.

    When it comes to the original question of Mental prison, the damage is similar to disintegrate with the problem that the trigger of the secondary damage can be triggered by the enemy's choice and not the player without the investment of additional actions. in addition Disintegrate has uses on objects while Mental prison does not. If additional conditions need to be met that is a lowering of effecacy of the spell and justifies the additional damage. Keep in mind the target is restrained so cannot move through normal means and requires additional method to move them. During this time they can break the effect before the secondary damage is dealt. I suggest trying the spell in combat before saying it's overpowered just by reading the spell description.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by andargor View Post
    I will quote the relevant part:


    The rest of your post seems to imply that one has to be dumb not to choose Hexblade, the overpowered one, and I provided an example of the opposite. That's what it has to do with your post.
    I didn't say that at all. You are putting words in my mouth. Obviously there are players who make characters to represent archetypes etc. without caring overly much about how much mechanical power they have.

    Your reply still has nothing to do with the conversation happening in my post.

    The post I replied to, which is quoted is this:

    "I originally was going to mention the Hexblade, but as so many people are falling over themselves in love with the class I figured Id give it a pass"

    My response to that was:

    "People like power"

    Your response to my statement about how people are 'falling over themselves in love with the Hexblade' because many of them like power is that you like the Great Old One Patron.

    That has nothing to do with my post or what we are talking about.

    The Hexblade is both weak thematically (it's supposed to be a patron, the fluff excuse given is thin) and ridiculously overpowered. And a lot of people are all about it. If it wasn't ridiculously overpowered it wouldn't be nearly as popular as it is.

    You liking the Great Old One Patron has nothing to do with this. You might as well have quoted my post and said "I like crackers".

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