5E Mental prison; power creep, typo or working as intended - Page 4
+ Log in or register to post
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 52
  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Saeviomagy View Post
    Since the flavour of the spell is that you're trapped within something dangerous and interacting with it hurts you, it makes perfect sense that no longer being trapped without interacting with the dangerous thing frees you with no damage, just like teleporting out of any real situation would.

    There's also the fact that teleportation is never ever referred to as movement anywhere within the rules, which has some important implications: Your teleportation distance isn't reduced by difficult terrain, you can't mount up by teleporting. You can't stand up by teleporting. You can't jump, climb or swim while teleporting. You can teleport through intervening objects...

    In general, the rules for teleporting and the rules for moving are not the same. The only similarity they share is "your position at the end of the teleport may be different to your position at the start of the teleport".


    Well, I can agree with you that teleporting and general movement are different. I understand what you're saying.


    But using that with Mental Prison hinges on focusing on the word "move" in the spell text vs. what I would say is the content of the text, that leaving the illusionary prison triggers damage.

    Flavor-wise you could explain any situation in any different way. The danger of the prison may not be perceived as physical that can be avoided, but a spiritual or psychic threat (the damage is psychic, after all) requiring you to stay within the prison.


    I will have to keep my eye out for other instances of "move" in the books and see how this fits in with teleporting-type movement.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Rexwell View Post
    Well, I can agree with you that teleporting and general movement are different. I understand what you're saying.


    But using that with Mental Prison hinges on focusing on the word "move" in the spell text vs. what I would say is the content of the text, that leaving the illusionary prison triggers damage.

    Flavor-wise you could explain any situation in any different way. The danger of the prison may not be perceived as physical that can be avoided, but a spiritual or psychic threat (the damage is psychic, after all) requiring you to stay within the prison.


    I will have to keep my eye out for other instances of "move" in the books and see how this fits in with teleporting-type movement.
    In this case it specifies the space immediately around the target. The target is hurt even if they reach out into that space to attack. If that space is bypassed entirely it should not take the damage.

  3. #33
    Member
    Spellbinder (Lvl 16)



    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Wollongong
    Posts
    6,543
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block Saeviomagy


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by Rexwell View Post
    Flavor-wise you could explain any situation in any different way. The danger of the prison may not be perceived as physical that can be avoided, but a spiritual or psychic threat (the damage is psychic, after all) requiring you to stay within the prison.
    "you make the area immediately around the target's space appear dangerous to it in some way"

    That, along with the examples (fire, floating razors, maws with dripping teeth), the rule text about making melee attacks and reaching body parts through the illusion makes it pretty clear to me that it's interacting with the cell that causes the damage.

  4. #34
    It's a mental prison, not a physical one. Teleporting doesn't let you escape your own mind.

    Though I agree it's not a "move" either. So you will neither trigger the damage or escape.

  5. #35
    Member
    Spellbinder (Lvl 16)



    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    C'ville
    Posts
    1,690
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block jaelis


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by mellored View Post
    It's a mental prison, not a physical one. Teleporting doesn't let you escape your own mind.

    Though I agree it's not a "move" either. So you will neither trigger the damage or escape.
    I can see that interpretation, but to me the statement "you make the area immediately around the target's space appear dangerous to it in some way" sounds like the illusion is at a particular place in space. If you teleport out, I would say you still perceive the illusory hazard, but it would remain in the location where it was created.

    But it depends if you think the area around the target is supposed to be a static description or a dynamic effect that follows the target.
    --
    But if it was meant to be dynamic, then why would it break when you move normally?
    Last edited by jaelis; Friday, 8th December, 2017 at 04:32 PM.

  6. #36
    I find myself wondering that, if the DM interprets the spell via the flavor text instead of the RAW - does it become a more balanced spell? If you can't abuse it through forced movement, and can escape it with teleportation, maybe it's not too high damage.

  7. #37
    Member
    Spellbinder (Lvl 16)



    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    C'ville
    Posts
    1,690
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block jaelis


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Wombat View Post
    I find myself wondering that, if the DM interprets the spell via the flavor text instead of the RAW - does it become a more balanced spell? If you can't abuse it through forced movement, and can escape it with teleportation, maybe it's not too high damage.
    IMO if it didn't end with forced movement it would be a stronger spell. Keep the baddie blind and restrained while you drag it into the firepit or off the cliff.

  8. #38
    Dusty Dragon COPPER SUBSCRIBER
    Grandmaster of Flowers (Lvl 18)

    Ancalagon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    3,367
    Reviews
    Read 1 Reviews

    Block Ancalagon


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    I agree. I tend to lean toward course correction. And if you think Xanthanar's is Power Creep, I suggest you take a look at Enervation, Create Homunculus, and many of the reprints from EE. Not exactly top tear. This one might be a little too much, but it offers the target a tough choice: remain out of the combat or take a boatload of damage. I kind of like the design behind it that, even if it is not perfect.
    It does have Tiny Servant, ie THE BEST 3RD LEVEL SPELL IN THE GAME.
    Fear not the slugman

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Wombat View Post
    I find myself wondering that, if the DM interprets the spell via the flavor text instead of the RAW - does it become a more balanced spell? If you can't abuse it through forced movement, and can escape it with teleportation, maybe it's not too high damage.
    The idea that 'flavour text' and 'RAW' are different in 5e is wrong.

    The entire game is 'flavour text'

  10. #40
    Member
    Spellbinder (Lvl 16)



    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    8,491
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block Stalker0


    Friend+
    I believe in either a tweet or a sage article 1 of the designers specifically noted the teleportation was not considered movement

+ Log in or register to post
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Similar Threads

  1. Alignment working as intended in 5e
    By Sword of Spirit in forum D&D 5th Edition News, Rules, Homebrews, and House Rules
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: Monday, 20th March, 2017, 01:31 AM
  2. Weapons as Implements. Working as intended?
    By Pyrex in forum Pathfinder, Starfinder, Older D&D Editions (4E, 3.x, 2E, 1E, OD&D), D&D Variants, OSR
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: Wednesday, 20th January, 2010, 12:55 AM
  3. XP working as intended?
    By Kzach in forum Pathfinder, Starfinder, Older D&D Editions (4E, 3.x, 2E, 1E, OD&D), D&D Variants, OSR
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: Monday, 29th September, 2008, 09:51 AM
  4. New Masterwork Armors, Power Creep...but a good kind of Power Creep?
    By Stalker0 in forum Pathfinder, Starfinder, Older D&D Editions (4E, 3.x, 2E, 1E, OD&D), D&D Variants, OSR
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Monday, 22nd September, 2008, 11:05 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •