D&D 4E Exercise : Building an AD&D Ranger with 4e

Garthanos · Dec 12, 2017

The AD&D ranger was just like the Paladin a type of fighter, he had magic at higher levels but was never a 2 fisted combatant any more or less than any other fighter so while you can use Ranger as the base you don't need to and a Warlord Fighter hybrid might get one a better Aragorn or Just an in your face Warlord build. Rogue is probably the only phb martial class actively not recommended for building an AD&D feel ranger with.

Beyond that in 4e take the toughness feat as soon as possible and make sure you get the nature and perception skill right way too. Perhaps round it out with a Giant killer feat.

The ranger spells in AD&D were druid and wizard and not until 8th level call that paragon in 4e terms it never was fundamental to the concept in spite of later claims to this effect by people who didnt like the ranger being martial. Much of that feel can be accomplished by having your 4e fighter multiclass dabble into either druid or mage (or any class of that ilk) and even better if getting rituals or martial practices.

And we have The AD&D ranger as something like this.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Ana, level 1
Human, Fighter
Build: Great Weapon Fighter
Fighter: Combat Agility
Fighter Talents: Two-handed Weapon Talent
Human Power Selection: Bonus At-Will Power
Background: Forest Warden (Forest Warden Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 12, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 12, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8.

AC: 17 Fort: 17 Reflex: 14 Will: 12
HP: 32 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 8

TRAINED SKILLS
Nature +7, Athletics +9, Heal +6, Endurance +6, Perception +7

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +3, Arcana, Bluff -1, Diplomacy -1, Dungeoneering +1, History, Insight +1, Intimidate -1, Religion, Stealth +3, Streetwise -1, Thievery +3

FEATS
Human: Toughness
Level 1: Giant Killer

POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Footwork Lure
Fighter at-will 1: Reaping Strike
Fighter at-will 1: Cleave
Fighter encounter 1: Spinning Sweep
Fighter daily 1: Brute Strike

ITEMS
Scale Armor, Adventurer's Kit, Greatsword
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

Should probably pick up either Martial Practices or Stealth might have done that and put off Giant Killer

Some of my new Martial practices would bring it even more home to Aragorn I mean the 1e ranger (including animal tongues and the like)

Garthanos · Dec 13, 2017

Building the AD&D Paladin with 4e

Comparatively speaking I have less positive results from trying to build the AD&D Paladin as a Fighter

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Quinn, level 1
Human, Fighter
Build: Guardian Fighter
Fighter: Combat Superiority
Fighter Talents: One-handed Weapon Talent
Level 1 Callidyrr Dragoon Feature: Callidyrr Dragoon Bastard Sword
Human Power Selection: Bonus At-Will Power
Background: Redemption Seeker (Redemption Seeker Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 11, Dex 10, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 15.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 11, Dex 10, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 15.

AC: 19 Fort: 17 Reflex: 13 Will: 13
HP: 26 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 6

TRAINED SKILLS
Diplomacy +8, Athletics +7, Intimidate +7, Heal +6, Insight +7, Religion +5

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics -2, Arcana, Bluff +2, Dungeoneering +1, Endurance -2, History, Nature +1, Perception +1, Stealth -2, Streetwise +2, Thievery -2

FEATS
Callidyrr Dragoon Feat:Mounted Combat
Human: Mark of Healing
Level 1: Bardic Dilettante

POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Threatening Rush
Fighter at-will 1: Brash Strike
Fighter at-will 1: Tide of Iron
Fighter encounter 1: Covering Attack
Fighter daily 1: Comeback Strike

ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit, Heavy Shield, Bastard sword, Scale Armor
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

Bardic Healing word gives this Paladin his healing touch (though I might prefer to use a Disciple of Justice feat) this one gave me the religion as a trained skill. and multiclassing to a charisma based healer class seems likely necessary ie the reason to not multiclass Cleric is because I want to emphasize charisma (... because AD&D Paladin)

Mark of Healing --> Cure Disease (arguably personal immunity to disease could be added to this without over powering anything) .
Insight --> closest I think we can get to detecting evil. (so might take skill focus on it later)

Things missing entirely include protection from evil aura // immunity to disease // special mount summoning // turning undead. //+2 to all saving throws.

I am probably missing something or another and an actual divine boon might help some.

A part of me wants to call something on the order of Pelors Divine Blessing Appropriate
This however is actually moving into later versions of the paladin I think (with smiting going on
with the radiant damage translations) and the light effect being god specific fun...

Garthanos · Dec 14, 2017

Champion of the Light Alternative AD&D Paladin

An alternate option which might get us a step further on the AD&D Paladin is hybriding a fighter and cleric which is kind of what many of us thought the paladin since forever ... the main issue would be a desire to mechanically build this as a Strength Wisdom really starts to scream... but to an extent you may be able to avoid that the advantage would be ofcourse having some undead "turning" tools and healing out of the box.

Interestingly the Fighter Feat -- Sideways defense which grants adjacent allies protection +1 to all saving throws vs a enemy you mark might be flavored as a sort of aura of protection.

Another Feat that might be valuable which provides boosted +2 to all saving throws when out of action points could be the human specific stubborn survival (this would encourage the character to spend those action points now). The Paladin was a human specific class and using human specific powers is basically a thumbs up for this design

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 1
Human, Cleric|Fighter
Hybrid Cleric: Battle Cleric's Lore
Level 1 Callidyrr Dragoon Feature: Callidyrr Dragoon Fullblade
Hybrid Talent: Channel Divinity (Hybrid Cleric)
Human Power Selection: Bonus At-Will Power
Background: Crusading Zealot (Crusading Zealot Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 10, Dex 10, Int 9, Wis 13, Cha 16.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 10, Dex 10, Int 9, Wis 13, Cha 16.

AC: 19 Fort: 16 Reflex: 11 Will: 15
HP: 23 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 5

TRAINED SKILLS
Diplomacy +8, Religion +4, Heal +6, Insight +6, Athletics +9

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics, Arcana -1, Bluff +3, Dungeoneering +1, Endurance, History -1, Intimidate +3, Nature +1, Perception +1, Stealth, Streetwise +3, Thievery

FEATS
Human: Hybrid Talent
Level 1: Mark of Healing
Callidyrr Dragoon Feat:Mounted Combat

POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Reaping Strike
Channel Divinity (Hybrid Cleric): Turn Undead
Hybrid at-will 1: Brash Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Recovery Strike
Hybrid encounter 1: Hack and Hew
Hybrid daily 1: Gift of Incomparable Strength

ITEMS
Scale Armor, Adventurer's Kit, Holy Symbol, Fullblade, Pelor's Sun Blessing (level 3)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

Though the generic Divinity from AD&D has a lot of flavor in common with Pelor I should probably come up with something more specific.

Perhaps This Idea Champion of the Light's Blessing

property -> Aura of Protection From Dark Forces: An Aura such that you and adjacent allies gain 2 points of armor class and +2 saving throw against attacks from creatures vulnerable to Radiant.

property -> +3 item Bonus on insight and perception checks vs creatures vulnerable to radiant.

Daily Lay on Hands as minor action you may spend a healing surge to heal an adjacent ally an amount equal to their healing surge value + your Cha bonus.

This is probably too much but so maybe is Pelor's Sun Blessing

If you are fighting forces of Darkness stay close to this Paladin err Fighter/Cleric.

edit: Also the champion of the light visibly glows to the forces of darkness he is protected against.

AbdulAlhazred · Dec 14, 2017

I think BOTH the AD&D Paladin and Ranger would be best emulated using the Warlord. In the case of the Paladin you get healing, a CHA based build, and you can pick the Inspiring Presence and the Battlefront Leader option from MP2, which will help you with the 'heavily armored front rank tank that can heal and inspire' concept. You could also MC into Paladin and pick up a PP that will give you some more 'spell-like' powers for use at higher levels, emulating the 1e paladin's not-inconsiderable spellcasting ability. I'm not sure if there's a way to pick up a turning ability, though.

Ranger is also served well by the Archer Warlord option from MP2 as well. While the leaderly healing options aren't so characteristic of the ranger this build does get you a potent combination of single weapon melee prowess and archery which isn't too shabby and is pretty similar to what the 1e ranger gets. You guys have already suggested some feat options that should work well.

Garthanos · Dec 14, 2017

AbdulAlhazred said:
I think BOTH the AD&D Paladin and Ranger would be best emulated using the Warlord. In the case of the Paladin you get healing, a CHA based build, and you can pick the Inspiring Presence and the Battlefront Leader option from MP2, which will help you with the 'heavily armored front rank tank that can heal and inspire' concept. You could also MC into Paladin and pick up a PP that will give you some more 'spell-like' powers for use at higher levels, emulating the 1e paladin's not-inconsiderable spellcasting ability. I'm not sure if there's a way to pick up a turning ability, though.

Ranger is also served well by the Archer Warlord option from MP2 as well. While the leaderly healing options aren't so characteristic of the ranger this build does get you a potent combination of single weapon melee prowess and archery which isn't too shabby and is pretty similar to what the 1e ranger gets. You guys have already suggested some feat options that should work well.

My fondness for our versatile warlord probably resulted in me mentioning it but not using it

, did I tie one arm behind my back

Additionally now that I have warlords getting martial practices out of the box... both the Warlord Based Paladin and Ranger would get some significant Lancelot and Aragorn flavor boost right away

Arikabeth · Dec 14, 2017

About building the ranger:

You might want to pick up the "Alertness" feat.
For extra damage to giants, there are some "Greater style" feats for fighters/warlord/rangers in the in the "Hunting Spear" group, or you could get a "Giantslayer Weapon".
Getting the "Fey Beast Tamer" theme could reflect getting a follower, though I don't think the rules support getting multiple and/or larger companions. I guess it'd be better to use the DMG2 rules for those followers.

Garthanos · Dec 14, 2017

Arikabeth said:
About building the ranger:

You might want to pick up the "Alertness" feat.

A good one to point out indeed - I do have the Perception skill trained on this case Alertness would be an appropriate upgrade ...
We might need some stealth in there to represent able to surprise the enemy.

Arikabeth said:
For extra damage to giants, there are some "Greater style" feats for fighters/warlord/rangers in the in the "Hunting Spear" group, or you could get a "Giantslayer Weapon".

Giant Killer works pretty directly what would be the benefits of those?

Garthanos · Dec 14, 2017

Champion of the Light's Blessing

Garthanos said:
Champion of the Light's Blessing

property -> Aura of Protection From Dark Forces: An Aura such that you and adjacent allies gain 2 points of armor class and +2 saving throw against attacks from creatures vulnerable to Radiant. Also the champion of the light visibly glows to the forces of darkness he is protected against.

property -> +3 item Bonus on insight and perception checks vs creatures vulnerable to radiant.

Daily Lay on Hands as minor action you may spend a healing surge to heal an adjacent ally an amount equal to their healing surge value + your Cha bonus.

Arguably being sensible by "The Forces of Darkness" is actually both how the first ability works (and it is much like the aura of protection from evil) - and a bit of

for tat of being sensible - makes the ability feel kind of awesome. It also evokes the paladin sensing evil.

And the Lay on Hands daily involves self sacrifice to aid another instead of evoking the inner heroism intrinsic in your ally ... this feels more paladin like to me.

So I put three paladin abilities in the boon yet to me it seems no more extreme than the level 3 Pelor's Sun Blessing (its perception/protection/restoration - whereas the other was bane/perception/restoration.)

Arikabeth · Dec 14, 2017

Garthanos said:
A good one to point out indeed - I do have the Perception skill trained on this case Alertness would be an appropriate upgrade ...
We might need some stealth in there to represent able to surprise the enemy.

The main point about Alertness was to reflect the ability have a smaller chance of being surprised of the AD&D ranger (but the Perception boost is nice too, aiding with tracking, etc.). Stealth sounds like a good skill to get yes.

Garthanos said:
Giant Killer works pretty directly what would be the benefits of those?

Giant killer only works off critical hits. The Hunting Spear style feats grant +2 vs larger enemies with some encounter powers, and the Giantslayer weapon grant bonus damage equal to the enchantment of the weapon. The main point was to have the damage vs giant be applied more consistently, though encounter powers may not be that consistent anyway, and perhaps it'd be unfitting to have to rely on a weapon enchantment in order to mimic the AD&D ranger, so I concur that they may not be the best alternatives.

Garthanos · Dec 14, 2017

Arikabeth said:
and the Giantslayer weapon grant bonus damage equal to the enchantment of the weapon.

It might be appropriate to construct a Giant Slayer - Martial Technique - a bit different than the ones that enable unarmed striking but which carry the enchantment effect.