We saw a Star War! Last Jedi spoiler thread
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    We saw a Star War! Last Jedi spoiler thread

    Seen it! Best of the new films yet, not as good as Empire. Some surprises.

    Luke was bad-ass. Snoke was awesome.

    A few bits were too silly/comedy for Star Wars (the bit where the top of the ATST ejects and its BB8, and then they do the super CGI run away on top of it stands out).

    So - the First Order. Its just a roving gang of a half dozen Star Destroyers? Now commanded by a teenager with a temper? It kinda feels like the galaxy could just ignore the handful of people fighting each other.

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    Other thoughts:

    - If you can take out a fleet of Star Destroyers by just flying a ship at light speed into them, why isn't that the standard tactic?
    - Awesome to see Yoda!
    - Jedi are definitely getting more powerful as the films go on!
    - Snoke was better than expected. No explanation who he is. Did NOT expect to see him go out like that.
    - Super space flying Leia looked and felt silly to me.
    - Porgs are tribbles.
    - I wonder how they'll write Leia out; she doesn't die in it.
    - BB8 pretending to be a mouse droid was funny. He did go over the top who the slapstick too much though.
    - Chewie may as well not have been in it.
    - Casino planet sequences felt very prequel-ish to me.
    - Luke was seriously awesome at the end. At first I thought he was already dead and was there as a force ghost.
    - So the main three are all out of the series now. That feels a bit sad. 3PO and R2 got about a minute's screen time between them.
    - I love Star Destroyers and I love Imperial Architecture.

    I rank it above Force Awakens, below Empire and ANH, above RotJ. I think. Not sure yet!
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    I've seen it twice now. Left the theater the first time feeling somewhat dissatisfied, but some things clicked into place after mulling it over for a while. More of it came together on the second viewing, which I enjoyed a whole lot more.

    - Leia in space was terrible. One of the worst things I've ever seen in a Star Wars movie, and at first I couldn't figure out why Carrie would've agreed to something so cheesy, but then I remembered that it's Carrie.

    - Yoda told Luke that Rey didn't need what was in the "Jedi texts", but he neglected to mention that Rey had already absconded with them. (Took me the second viewing to be sure about that.)

    - Poe's arc was confusing to me the first time, but after the second viewing, it made a lot more sense. He clearly goes from being a hot-headed, mutinous pilot to a proper leader, which is why Leia defers to him at the end.

    - Part of me wanted to be offended by all the obvious torch-passing stuff that was going on in this movie, but I found I didn't really mind it so much the second time.

    - The porgs are so adorable!

    - I still want to know Snoke's backstory. Apparently Lucasfilm has figured it out, so hopefully they'll reveal it at some point. The only bit I've been able to learn so far is that he comes from the Unknown Regions.

    - I wasn't sure if maybe the thing about Rey's parents being junk dealers was another lie/misdirect from Ben, but given that the dark side didn't show her her parents either has me thinking that he was telling the truth. She's not a Skywalker (or anyone else important).

    - Phasma is a complete waste of Brienne of Tarth's Gwendoline Christie's talents. That said, whadda ya wanna bet she shows up again in IX? I mean, she somehow survived the destruction of the Starkiller Base (after being dumped in a trash compactor), so surely she can survive falling into a fireball.

    - Did I mention that the porgs are awesome?

    - The "caretakers" were a bit on the too silly/extraneous side for me, especially since they just seem to appear out of nowhere the first time we see them.

    - I *loved* the bit where Luke tricks Rey with the leaf. And the bit at the beginning where Poe makes fun of Hux.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
    So - the First Order. Its just a roving gang of a half dozen Star Destroyers? Now commanded by a teenager with a temper? It kinda feels like the galaxy could just ignore the handful of people fighting each other.
    I know Ben *acts* like a teenager, but he's meant to be around 30 years old. Also, I got the impression that that fleet was just part of the First Order, not the whole thing. The opening crawl talks about how Snoke's "legions" rule the galaxy, and Poe et al refer to taking on *a* dreadnought (implying that the one they destroyed was not the only one).

    As for that last bit, it seems like the rest of the galaxy *is* ignoring the conflict (at least the parts not profiting from it). Leia's "allies" refused to come to her aid, after all.

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    The First Order.

    What a sad, incompetent, bunch of morons. All of them - troops, Phasma, officers, Kylo Ren, Snoke.
    It was like watching Cobra in the old GIJoe cartoons from the 80s.
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    I don't think anything Star Wars will be able to beat ESB for some of the fans, oddly I'd like to go see it again,which hasn't happened since episode I.

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    We saw a Star War! Last Jedi spoiler thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pukunui View Post
    I know Ben *acts* like a teenager, but he's meant to be around 30 years old. Also, I got the impression that that fleet was just part of the First Order, not the whole thing. The opening crawl talks about how Snoke's "legions" rule the galaxy, and Poe et al refer to taking on *a* dreadnought (implying that the one they destroyed was not the only one).As for that last bit, it seems like the rest of the galaxy *is* ignoring the conflict (at least the parts not profiting from it). Leia's "allies" refused to come to her aid, after all.
    I know the crawl says that, but without that youd get no sense that the First Order was anything more than a mid-sized organised gang. They dont show anything in the movies.

    Do they hold territory? Is there a government? All you ever see is a single army. And the entire command structure appears to be Snoke -> Kylo -> Hux -> Phasma -> Stormtroopers (and they're all on those half dozen ships). Are there others? Regional governors, other armies, more ships? Are there stormtroopers on Tattooine? Is there an actual government?

    Are they actually ruling the Galaxy now like the Empire was? It feels more like just Snoke and his handful of ships vs Leia and her handful of ships in a corner of the galaxy somewhere. More like a small gang war than galactic civil war. The Galaxy has, what, a million inhabited planets? And we have about a dozen ships fighting each other?

    Starkiller Base, for all its plot issues, showed how the FO could threaten an entire galaxy. I cant see how a dozen Star Destroyers could though.

    I get the sense theres more info in books and comics and stuff? Is Kylo now ruling the galaxy? Nobodys fighting the FO now, right? I guess I just want more information about the First Order!
    Last edited by Morrus; Friday, 15th December, 2017 at 02:25 PM.
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    I left the theater feeling a general unease, an unfocused anger that took me a while to understand. Now that I've slept on it, I think I have a handle on the source of my ire.

    The new movies have deconstructed and destroyed the heroes of the original trilogy.

    The OT heroes were Luke, Leia and Han. Luke was defined by being a jedi, and his purpose was to "pass on what [he had] learned." He failed, then gave up, then cut himself off from the force and went into hiding. Leia was defined by her belief in the Republic and her struggle to restore it. Despite the Republic prevailing over the remains of the Empire, Leia was forced out of the Republic Senate and driven into a sort of exile while the Republic disregarded the threat of the New Order to its peril. In The Force Awakens, the Republic is effectively destroyed when the Senate and the Republic fleet are blown up, and in The Last Jedi her failure becomes complete as the resistance is decimated and her allies abandon her. Han Solo was not an idealistic crusader, what mattered to him were the people in his life. Han didn't care much about the Jedi, but he cared about Luke. He didn't burn with Republic patriotism, but he loved Leia. What do they do to Han? His marriage is ruined, his only child estranged, and even his fellow scumbags seem to have all turned against him. Only Chewy and Maz seem to want to have anything to do with him, and when he tries to reach out and mend his relationships his failure becomes tragically complete, as he is contemptuously cut down by his own son.

    The message is clear: the "heroes" of the Rebel Alliance are abject and complete failures, and it is up to Mary Sue and the fresh-faced millennials to clean up the mess they've made of things.

    I grew up with Star Wars. I saw the original Star Wars (later "A New Hope") in 1977, at the age of 7. Han, Luke, and Leia were the heroes of my childhood, and for 30 years after The Return of the Jedi I was confident that in that galaxy far, far away, the heroes of the Rebel Alliance had restored the Republic and fulfilled their epic destinies. Now, along comes JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy, and they decide that the heroes of my childhood should be rewritten as failures. Their failures don't just present challenges for Mary Sue and the millennials, they practically invalidate their triumph over the Empire. A new villain indistinguishable from a Sith Lord has created an even bigger Death Star and crushed the Republic, dominating the galaxy with his New Order which is indistinguishable from the Palpatine's Empire. It's not that new challenges have arisen, and the heroes need to rely on a new generation to face the threat together. No, its that the exact same threat has returned to invalidate whatever victories you thought the heroes had achieved, and a new generation needs to learn from the failure of the last one.

    I'm also not at all enamoured by the JJ Abrams signature clumsy misdirection thing. Either Snoke is not permanently dead (perhaps because of some Plagueis thing) and we'll get some idea of who he is, where he came from, and how he brought about the resurgence of the Imperial Remnant as the New Order, or this new trilogy has made a super-powerful dark side master a generic villain. Either Rey's parents are much more than just baby-selling junk scavengers, or there is no legacy of the Skywalker lineage. In other words, either we got a load of clumsy misdirection (and outright trolling) or the whole story of the trilogy sucks.

    Now, I know Rey is, on some level, supposed to be a Skywalker. Force users can come from anywhere, but the two most powerful force users we've ever seen are probably representative of the two sides of the Skywalker legacy. Also, The Force Awakens was pretty blatant about it when Kylo goes poking around in Rey's mind: he sees her driven by longing for a reunion with her family, and comments on the related dreams of the ocean, and the island. Unless Rey is related to the keepers or the porgs, she's got to be kin to Luke. Similarly, introducing Snoke as a character who has apparently survived multiple mortal wounds (including having his head cracked open at some point) makes it seem less unlikely that simply cutting him in half will keep him dead for very long. That's what I mean by clumsy misdirection--neither Snoke's abrupt bisection nor Rey's "you're not important to anyone but me" ancestry revelation are persuasive (to me,) but I also can't really claim to have much confidence, at this point, that this plot will be redeemed in the Episode 9 instead of just going all in on the "wipe out the past and start fresh" thing.

    As it stands now, Han died for nothing, Luke is an emo ghost that died without having actually trained anyone, and Leia is the leader of a support group for survivors. And that's not cool.

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    From what I understand, they're going for a Saturday morning cartoon feel. Disney is making a streaming service and pushing for a shorter window between theatrical release and streaming availability. As short as two weeks. Coupled with the serial nature of the franchise, I wouldn't expect anything drastic to happen to any characters, either to them or their development. Like the MCU movies, by and large, there aren't going to be any real stakes in this property.

  10. #10
    Is anyone surprised how the SJW wants to destroy anything good from the past, including fictional heroes.

    They want the heroes to give in to evil, give in to their selfish side, and not care about others. To give up the fight. Let evil win.

    This is the message I got from these last two star wars episode movies.

    So I would not be surprised at all if episode IX has the evil empire/first order (new world order) take out the resistance once and for all and have whatever secret weapons Emperor Palatine had with the unknown region do the same with the republic.


    Tis a shame, as I expected more from Disney.

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