Monk Feats: 6th level - Improved Trip or Improved Disarm?

MarauderX · Aug 14, 2003

So here are the last choices a monk gets to make, and although many other Str monks would already pick up one or both of these feats, they might wanna wait until 6th level to get them. I thought it was weird the feats they picked out, and stranger still that they are so 'advanced' given the relative low prereqs for them.

Anyway, which is better and why?

Thresher · Aug 14, 2003

Either would work ok in combination with combat relexes, kick a weapon out of their hand and then knock them on their arse with the AoO attack, get another AoO to keep kicking them because their down... it all gets quite nasty really

Xarls Taunzund · Aug 14, 2003

They actually work quite well together. Knock em down, get your free attack (from Improved Trip) and take their weapon from them.

rlphay · Aug 14, 2003

And if you take the Improved Trip, you can always take the instant stand feat, so that way if you fail your trip attemp and they trip you, you can stand as a free action and then continue your round.

Elder-Basilisk · Aug 14, 2003

Improved Trip. Monks are pretty much stuck with using unarmed strikes (light weapons in 3.5) for Improved Disarm and thus will usually be at a disadvantage in the opposed roll. Monks with a decent strength, OTOH, will often be at an advantage for their trip attack.

MarauderX · Aug 14, 2003

I was looking at the feat-trees associated with each, and was kinda miffed that you could get Great Throw (Impr. Trip) much earlier than Grappling Block (Impr. Disarm) making both of the feats available for choice kinda valuable at lower levels. I know any monk I will build will probably be taking one of them before reaching 6th level, leaving the other as the 'ok, I guess I will take it, I have no choice now' feat.

For example you could take some levels in fighter to climb the feat tree quicker, getting Grappling Block by PC level 6. Or you could get Great Throw by 3rd (I think... not exactly sure though).
My monk-mage will be getting Grappling Block by 6th level/3rd monk (if he survives) and will still be 3 levels short of getting the 6th level monk feats. And at 9th level/6th level monk he will be ready to get Impr. Trip and the bonus feat, getting Great Throw all in one sweep just because I had to take Impr Trip.

To me, I would have writen that the monk gets to make the choice between these two feats at an earlier level, say 4th, and give two more feats at 8th. With the automatic feats at 3rd and 6th it would even out so that the PC gains them in a slow progression, kinda like the fighter.

As far as worth, I would say both have their place. Having Improved Trip (or better yet, Great Throw) would be great when you are fighting foes on cliffs, tops of walls, bridges, etc. Improved Disarm (or Grappling Block) is wonderful for that evil melee guy who thinks he is all powerful... that is until he has to draw his second weapon out... followed by his third...then resorting to shield-bashing the annoying monk.

Legildur · Aug 15, 2003

I think that they are both nice choices. This time I leant towards Improved Trip.

The decision gets tougher if you are using the optional rule from Sword and Fist that a monk's hands (if he is using both for an unarmed disarm attempt) are rated as medium size weapons.

And it would have been even tougher under 3.0 where standing from prone didn't provoke an AOO.

Both would be nice, but that would mean taking Combat Expertise to qualify for the 2nd feat.

I'm waiting for the look on my DMs face when my monk finally reaches 6th level and the wizard casts Enlarge Person. I'm also hoping that he'll allow Great Throw!!

Lotus · Aug 15, 2003

I don't find either to be really incredible as an unarmed monk -- picking up one of the previous level's bonus feats would have been nicer IMHO (to get stun AND grapple).

If I were doing a quarterstaff-wielding monk, or a grappler rather than a stunner, I might consider disarm. But when you stun someone they drop what they're holding anyway.

I went with Improved Trip though I don't expect to use it often.

Devilkiller · Aug 15, 2003

Yeah, about unarmed attacks being small weapons, just use a sai or better yet a staff. You can still attack or even flurry with your unarmed attacks even while carrying a staff.

I'm partial to tripping myself though.

MarauderX · Aug 16, 2003

I think I am partial to the Improved Trip myself, so much so that I am taking it early with my monk-mage-fighter build so I can use Great Throw to whip some bodies around since his damage is still so weak. I just gotta hope there are some dangerous spiked-filled pits around to toss them all into... <hint, hint...wink, wink...>