Unearthed Arcana Spores, Brutes, and Inventors: Unearthed Arcana Brings You Three New Subclasses

neobolts · Jan 10, 2018

DEFCON 1 said:
I mean, the arcane armor just screams Artificer to me. But because they probably don't have the full 20 levels of Artificer to show us for another round of playtesting yet... they create this fake "School of Invention" so that we can see and give opinion on the mechanics before they possibly then incorporate the armor stuff into the Artificer for that classes next playtest.

The exact opposite might be true. I'm wondering if they are leaning away from artificer as a stand-alone class and leaning towards an archetype instead.

BookBarbarian said:
Yup. Doesn't a Low strength Elf Dual-wielding rapiers seem like the textbook "Brute" to you?

Edit: I realized it's even better using Crossbow Expert. What a Brute!

I like this archetype a lot. There is plenty of room for more "entry level player" options in the game, and absolutely no reason to limit the number of low complexity fighter options. That said, the name has to change. Maybe something like "Relentless", an aggressively no-backing-down concept that fits both STR and DEX.

mellored said:
Inventor seems just odd. How is casting random spells being an inventor? Seems more appropriate for a chaos sorcerer.

Or a "mad mage" wizard archetype. Maybe they are channeling Rick and Morty?

Leatherhead said:
Halo of Spores
And now for something completely different: Here we have an example of bending the action economy to the absolute limit. By trading in your reaction (which is something that a caster Druid isn't going to have much use for outside of Absorb Elements), you get to deal automatic poison damage to a target of your choice.

I don't really care for the precedent that this sets. This effectively turns your reaction into a second bonus action. There has to be a better way to do this.

Fungal Infestation
Well, this is probably the entire reason this subclass exists. You get to make your own zombie minions from things you kill. That sounds like fun. But there are lots of restrictions, too many inmo. First and foremost, it only happens when you, yourself, land the killing blow on a humanoid with Halo of Spores. Yeah, good luck with that. Secondly, the Zombie never scales. It always has 1hp, and always does the +3 to hit for 1d6+1 damage Slam attack once per turn. Undead Fortitude can make the thing last a lot longer than it has any right to, but why a zombie in the first place? Why not make it a vegepygmy? Or maybe scrap it as a creature entirely, because minion armies are a headache, and make it an scaling exploding spore cluster that the Druid has some control over? And once you do get rid of the zombie making, you can also remove Animate Dead from the spell list and make this subclass all about controlling the battlefield with spores instead of having to pay lip service to undead.

I love the overall concept. Its weird and new, reminds me of the "oozemaster" from the 3e splat books. But these two abilities both need to be majorly reworked.

The "reaction on your turn" is rules-speak junk of the highest caliber. Just don't. Keep reactions as reacting to something, rather than undermine action economy core concepts. Better to have it be a reaction. "When a creature starts its turn within 10 feet of you, as a reaction you can..."

On-the-fly spore-zombie pets are a fun idea, but this needs to be simple, easy, and frequent. Why not be able to use any humanoid you damaged instead of only ones you kill with a specific ability, but cap how many you can have at once (1/2 WIS mod maybe).

MoonSong · Jan 11, 2018

gyor said:
If they want a Sorceror like Wizard subclass they should just go straight for the Incantatrix, basically a wizard with sorcerer like traits.

Like I said have the Wizard pick two metamagic ability and a small pool of spell points. Add in a few more features inspired by the original Incantatrix prestige class. It's clear what they want, but they are going about it the hard way.

Reading the posts it appears that only the Circle of the Spoor is popular, a few people like the Brute as a replacement for a Champion they are unhappy with, but otherwise doesn't seem to interest people.

The School of Invention seems straight up hated.

I predict only the Circle of the Spoor survives.

Here are some more ideas for Wizard subclasses besides Incantatrix, Beguiler, Implement Master, Nethermancer, Shi'ar, Red Wizard, Theurge with it's own features, Elementalist, Ruathar, Geometer, Mage of the Arcane Order, Green Star Adapt, Recaster.

There is only one way I would accept a wizard having access to metamagic. It would have to fulfill all of the following:
1) The wizard gets ONE metamagic and doesn't get a second one until after the sorcerer gets it's third one.
2) The wizard gets to apply it to a limited number of spells ( like up to 1+Cha mod)
3) These spells are set in stone once selected (no retraining).
4) The spells must be on both the wizard and sorcerer lists.
5) The metamagic applies to one single spell and cannot be used again until after a short or long rest.
6) After being modified by metamagic, the spell cannot be cast again until after a long rest.
7) If the metamagic recharges, the wizard in question can't use both Arcane Recovery and recharge metamagic on the same short rest.

8) At the same time two feats are created:
One that allows to add a number of spells on the wizard list to the character's class list (let's say 5) and add one of a level which the character can cast to spells known.
Another one that let's the character learn a metamagic option and select a single spell on the sorcerer list the character can cast, once per short or long rest the character can modify that one spell with that one metamagic, and can be taken more than once, picking a different metamagic/spell combination

cbwjm · Jan 11, 2018

Seems a bit restrictive. If I was going to allow wizards to have access to metamagic through a subclass I'd allow it to apply to an spell with the same restrictions as a sorcerer. Having a single metamagic until a later level is fine, I'd probably go with 1 at 2nd level and 1 at 10th, and they wouldn't have as many sorcery points as a sorcerer, I might even go so far as to say that using metamagic reduces the number of levels they can get back via their arcane recovery power but that is mainly because I like linking subclass abilities to class abilities.

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Guest 6801328 · Jan 11, 2018

I would have loved to see a mechanic for Brute where you get rewarded for having low wisdom or intelligence. For example, a damage bonus that only applies if your unmodified attack roll is above either your Intelligence or Wisdom score, increased if it's above both of them.

MoonSong · Jan 11, 2018

cbwjm said:
Seems a bit restrictive. If I was going to allow wizards to have access to metamagic through a subclass I'd allow it to apply to an spell with the same restrictions as a sorcerer. Having a single metamagic until a later level is fine, I'd probably go with 1 at 2nd level and 1 at 10th, and they wouldn't have as many sorcery points as a sorcerer, I might even go so far as to say that using metamagic reduces the number of levels they can get back via their arcane recovery power but that is mainly because I like linking subclass abilities to class abilities.

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Let me explain my thinking

1) The wizard gets ONE metamagic and doesn't get a second one until after the sorcerer gets it's third one.

This one is self-evident and you agree so no biggie.

2) The wizard gets to apply it to a limited number of spells ( like up to 1+Cha mod)
3) These spells are set in stone once selected (no retraining).

This is actually for flavor reasons and to distinguish wizards from sorcerers. In this way the wizard doesn't discover a trick that randomly applies to every spell, more like he discovers a way to tweak a particular spell/set of spells.

4) The spells must be on both the wizard and sorcerer lists.

The wizard is already the most versatile caster, giving it metamagic should be a taste of it without allowing him to upstage the sorcerer while using it. Being allowed to use metamagic on wizard exclusives let's the wizard save resources in a multiplicative way: Extended tenser's floating disk? Extended Rope trick? extended Leomund's tiny hut?

5) The metamagic applies to one single spell and cannot be used again until after a short or long rest.

Metamagic is the sorcerer core thing, no wizard should be able to use it as often as a sorcerer. Once per short rest is already too generous. ( Sorcerers can only use it three times per day at first)

6) After being modified by metamagic, the spell cannot be cast again until after a long rest.

Get more versatility now, and lose future versatility as a tradeback. Fluff it as changing a spell formula on the fly makes it hard to remember it correctly for a future casting without careful study to get a refresher on it.

7) If the metamagic recharges, the wizard in question can't use both Arcane Recovery and recharge metamagic on the same short rest.

The wizard can cast way more often than a sorcerer already. Each time the sorcerer uses metamagic, she gives up future castings. If the wizard wants more versatility, he'd rather gain a restriction to compensate. Fluff it as altering the formula on the fly unbalances the magic energies that come for the weave and its dangerous to do it twice in a row without first realigning the connection to the weave and that takes time that cannot be used to tap into the magic reserves.

I know this is restrictive, but it is the only way I can think of allowing wizard to access metamagic that would let me content. (Other than say, modify all metamagic spells with metamagic as if they were an extra spell, preparing it counts as preparing three spells, casting it costs all spell slots of that spell level and it cannot be augmented to a higher slot when doing so)

edit: Oh, and I forgot another one: ALL of these spells should be from the same school.

flametitan · Jan 12, 2018

I actually had a slightly different idea for metamagic on the wizard. Rather than it being 1/short rest, it should instead be something like it gets 1/3 the sorcery points the sorcerer gets, minimum of one. This would prevent a wizard from ever being able to use it on their best spell slots; instead it would make them try to be creative with their low level spells. 1/day extended Leomund's Tiny Hut isn't so bad when that requires them to be a minimum 9th level character and doing so forces them out of their Sorcery Points.

That said, the idea that Metamagic spells would have to be prepared separately from spells without metamagic has weight to it. But how about it has a higher base level cost than the spell it augments? That is, an empowered burning hands starts out as a 2nd level spend instead of a 1st level spell, but you get no damage boost for it. Add to that, no metamagic shenanigans for spells with the ritual casting tag, as that makes it easier to get around any loop holes related to ritual spells.

ad_hoc · Jan 12, 2018

Dausuul said:
For the invention thing, I think a better approach would be to allow you to roll twice at the end of each long rest, and the spells you roll are added to your prepared spells until your next long rest. That seems more interesting, and also more inventor-like, than casting a random combat spell.

I'd like to see this but with a huge list pulled from many class spell lists.

Cap'n Kobold · Jan 12, 2018

Regarding allowing wizards to use Sorceror metamagic, I'd probably only allow it for a subclass by incorporating it into a spell at the point of learning it. The level of the spell slot required would be increased by the sorcery point cost of the attached metamagic.

So a wizard picking their spells at level 7 could choose to learn Subtle Fireball for example. This would require a 4th level slot to cast at base power, and would always be cast as a Fireball spell augmented by the Subtle spell metamagic.
If the wizard wanted to be able to cast a normal Fireball, then they would have to learn it, and prepare it separately.

I like the Circle of Spores concept. How it actually plays out in practice though, I think I will have to wait and see. The mechanics are a little too intricate to be able to theorycraft, and may be very game-dependent.

Brute is a good Champion-alternative in terms of simple fighter. The combat numbers seem to be reasonable, but it doesn't really give much other than combat capabilities. - Which is one of the more major criticisms of most existing Fighter types.

Inventor, incorporating the armour and such strikes me more as an artificer subclass than a wizard. Smashing magic together at random at the point of casting seems more a sorcerer thing. A wizard or artificer should probably make that roll when they prepare their spells to represent a new formula or device that they have developed over the long rest.
Remove the armour aspect, and the general mechanics could be a good basis for an alternative to the Wild Sorceror, in the same way that the Brute is an alternative to the Champion.

Istbor · Jan 12, 2018

I rather like the Spore Druid. It is different, and it has a more cohesive feel to it than many other subclasses. Thematically at least. I have to think on the mechanics more before I determine how much I like them. I agree that it seems like an odd mix of a melee and ranged druid. Not sure if that is really a bad thing yet.

The Brute. I like it. I kind of wish there was a strength keyword in there, so that the already strong DEX and ranged builds won't continue to overshadow STR builds. It would still help out with a STR based two weapon fighter even. Or maybe if you dealt bonus damage based off CON mod for the Brutal strikes? Something to reinforce the Brute name, if that is what they decide to go with. I don't know... Some people feel that it will deal too much damage, but... most of the time you will only ever see 1 or 2 d4s and then d6s. I don't often play in games where you get to 16th level or beyond.

The Inventor, not sure how I feel. I like some aspects or ideas behind it. Not sure if the outcome is what I would have envisioned. I am not a huge wizard fan though so maybe it just doesn't tickle my fancy as much.

Guest 6801328 · Jan 12, 2018

My main complaint with the Brute is that it misses opportunities to be more flavorful. I think that could be achieved without making the class more complex (because it seems one of the design goals is simplicity). Here's my take at it. Not as powerful by the numbers, but that could be tweaked. I'm mostly thinking of fun/flavorful mechanics:

Brute

Brute Force
Starting at 3rd level, you’re able to strike with your weapons with especially brutal force. Whenever you hit with a weapon that you’re proficient with and deal damage, if your unmodified attack roll is greater than either of your Intelligence and Wisdom scores, the weapon’s damage increases by an amount based on your level in this class, as shown on the Brute Bonus Damage table.

(insert table)

You Are the Brute Squad
Also at 3rd level you gain proficiency in Charisma (Intimidation). If you already have proficiency then your proficiency bonus is doubled.

You’ll Just Make Him Mad
Beginning at 7th level, your obliviousness to discomfort (what others might call “pain”) allows you to shrug off all manner of assault. When required to make any kind of saving throw you may choose to make a Constitution roll instead. If it is a death saving throw, any result greater than 20 counts as a natural 20. You may do this a number of times equal to your Constitution modifier (minimum once), and regain all uses at the end of a short rest.

Additional Fighting Style
(Unchanged. Not terribly interesting, but at least it has the potential to affect playstyle.)

Staggering Blows
Starting at 15th level, when you score a critical hit, your target must make a Constitution saving throw or be stunned until the beginning of your next turn. The DC is equal to 8 + your Strength modifier + your proficiency modifier, and is further increased by 2 if using a weapon two-handed, or by -2 for offhand attacks.

Survivor
(Unchanged...can’t think of anything better at the moment)