Horwath
Legend
non-wizards CANNOT! be RED WIZARDS. Because they are not WIZARDS.
D&D 5E [+] Red Wizards of Thay
non-wizards CANNOT! be RED WIZARDS. Because they are not WIZARDS.
CapnZapp
Legend
That, plus the general inclusiveness of 5th edition.
What I think would be ideal is that a non-wizard would need a smattering of "wizardness" to qualify.
Thus far, my best suggestion is proficiency in Arcana (as you can see in my earlier post), but there may be better options...?
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CapnZapp
Legend
You're right
Consider the circle magic mechanism to be separate. Something that explains why. (Also, in preparation for the player character compatible ability)
Otherwise it just looks like the Wizard is also a Sorcerer.
If you look at my example character, I don't bother with explaining why the NPC has these abilities, or even to involve Sorcery Points at all. The NPC simply has this ability:
Circle Magic: can cast a spell as a bonus action (4/rest) and then also cast Blade Ward
Behind the scenes, this is the lead RW getting one 3rd level spell from each of her three associates (for 9 spell levels / Sorcery Points). To keep things straight-forward, I'm simply using eight of them to cast Quicken followed by a selected cantrip four times a day.
(I don't even bother with reducing these associates to one less 3rd level spell. Can't imagine the players even noticing this, much less complaining. So circle magic does grant something for "free", only a very specific selection of choices)
Cap'n Kobold
Hero
Ritual Caster feat for wizard spells?
That requires a certain level of human focus, or outright power over and above most wizards need, as well as a wizardly aspect in terms of a spell book and such. Plus the circle empowerment thing sounds like some sort of ritual even if its not a standard one.
Can Bards cast spells as rituals normally with their class feature?
MonsterEnvy
Legend
Honestly I would just use the Specialist NPC's from Volo's Guide as Red Wizards. As you said you want more then that. But I would still use those as the bases. This way you can have Wizards from each type of School.
Maybe add say spells they cast count as one level higher from their tattoos like you mentioned. I don't think you have to go any more complicated then that.
Maybe add say spells they cast count as one level higher from their tattoos like you mentioned. I don't think you have to go any more complicated then that.
CapnZapp
Legend
I see your point, but I'm concerned about feat chains. My assumption is that Circle Magic itself will be a feat (for player characters), and this would bump the entry point to eighth level.
But yeah, we could change things around to say "when you take Ritual Caster (wizard), and otherwise has access to Red Wizard teachings, and have acquired the tattoo, you gain Red Wizard abilities, including circle magic."
In other words, limiting the prerequisites to one (1) feat, that everyone can take at 4th level so they can become a Red Wizard at fifth.
Main question then is: what about characters that ARE wizards? Shouldn't they have to take a feat?
Sure. But many rituals are just fluff, with no specific regulation as a spell-as-ritual. Circle magic is described as such.
You could even connect it to a short rest (since that's too one hour long), and simply say "if you lead a circle during a short rest, you gain one sorcery point per spell level expended by each participant"...
CapnZapp
Legend
I have done exactly that!
(That is, the benefits of Red Wizardry keys off being a specialist, just like in 3E)
Feel free to read up on the NPC stat blocks in the other thread
aco175
Legend
I have no problem giving powers to make NPCs and monsters play cooler. If the red wizards are not PC options then I can add any powers to make the game better and scarier for the other players. If I have a red wizard NPC and want to give him a power that sucks HP from nearby minions, like the old vampiric touch spell, I just give it. I may make the CR a bit higher if I ass a few things, but do not feel like I need to balance things like the PCs are to each other.
I like the idea of lair powers with them in their homebase.
I like the idea of lair powers with them in their homebase.
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