Basic Four

cavalier973 · Feb 17, 2018

I am playing around with doing a rules mash-up of my two favorite D&D rulesets: Basic (Moldvay B/X, BECMI, RC) and 4e, and am soliciting advice and ideas.

The base rules would be 4e, with Basic elements mixed in.

For example: XP for Treasure is definitely on the table, but how much XP should be awarded for killing monsters?

Race-as-class? Of course. How would one build the Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling classes?

At name level (9, or 10?), what rules would facilitate the "political" side of the game introduced in the Moldvay/Mentzer Expert and Companion sets?

Rolling for stats...maybe 2d6+6, in order, instead of 3d6?

Basic's Saving throws will likely remain supplanted by 4e's Four Defenses model, but an argument could be made to somehow reintroduce them.

Alignments would be Law, Chaos, and Unaligned, and, yes, the former two alignments would get their alignment languages.

I like the Nentir Vale campaign setting, but perhaps Pelor, Avandra, and the rest are Immortals rather than gods.

I don't think it possible to implement non-variable (d6) weapon damage, but I would like to try.

I don't have a lot of time, right now, but I plan to post ideas of mine own, from time to time.

(Psi)SeveredHead · Feb 17, 2018

cavalier973 said:
I am playing around with doing a rules mash-up of my two favorite D&D rulesets: Basic (Moldvay B/X, BECMI, RC) and 4e, and am soliciting advice and ideas.

The base rules would be 4e, with Basic elements mixed in.

For example: XP for Treasure is definitely on the table, but how much XP should be awarded for killing monsters?

I prefer to set XP to campaign events. You get XP for collecting that loot, killing that enemy general, etc, regardless if you did so stealthily or murderously. This means the adventure isn't always about getting loot (so getting loot wouldn't be worth XP in that particular adventure) whereas another adventure might involve looting a specific lost treasure horde (so you wouldn't get XP for killing monsters).

Race-as-class? Of course. How would one build the Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling classes?

I don't think this is very compatible with 4e. Especially the Elf class. That's not a clear role.

At name level (9, or 10?), what rules would facilitate the "political" side of the game introduced in the Moldvay/Mentzer Expert and Companion sets?

I think you would have to use the older D&D rules with some numbers filed off

Rolling for stats...maybe 2d6+6, in order, instead of 3d6?

I don't think this is compatible with 4e. Gamma World 7e (basically 4e-lite) sort of did this, but it was more like randomly rolling a starting class, then being assigned appropriate main stats for that class.

Basic's Saving throws will likely remain supplanted by 4e's Four Defenses model, but an argument could be made to somehow reintroduce them.

I'd stick with 4e's defenses. I didn't find rules for, say, saving against a Staff of Death to be intuitive. First you have to figure out which save category (too many of them, and sometimes they overlapped!) by looking at the chart, which you update every level based on some obscure formula. Sometimes stats applied, sometimes they didn't. Did you want high-level fighters to laugh at magic, or did you want wizards to get more powerful with level? Both? (4e does both. 3e only really did the more powerful wizard, to it's detriment. But 2e and earlier did the first, which does not mesh with 4e's "everything tries to be balanced" system.)

Alignments would be Law, Chaos, and Unaligned, and, yes, the former two alignments would get their alignment languages.

4e didn't make alignment a big part of the game, which I'm thankful for. I never played a version of D&D older than 2e, so at least there wasn't any CE vs CN nonsense to put up with

But I think alignment languages are terrible. You could change your alignment, and then forget how to speak Lawful?

I don't think it possible to implement non-variable (d6) weapon damage, but I would like to try.

It's a way of making fighters unique. A fighter who uses a lighter weapon should be getting a better weapon speed (if you're using that rule). In 4e weapons were balanced in other ways, generally by proficiency and crit potential.

Garthanos · Feb 17, 2018

cavalier973 said:
At name level (9, or 10?), what rules would facilitate the "political" side of the game introduced in the Moldvay/Mentzer Expert and Companion sets?

I am more familiar with AD&D so my translation has been geared for that but I think they are analogous -- name level in 4e == Paragon so the levels are NOT very different at that pivot point. level 1 4e== level 4 in ADnD and every 2 subsequent levels in 4e == 1 level in AD&D

I am in the process of making martial practices, which in combination basically provide the Skalds signs of influence abilities. I think that needs some generalization out of the box. I recommend looking into those as abilities as starting points for 4e you are becoming powerful in social way.

Garthanos · Feb 17, 2018

They built a Vampire as a Class if they can do that other races as classes can be done not saying it would be easy.

Garthanos · Feb 17, 2018

cavalier973 said:
For example: XP for Treasure is definitely on the table, but how much XP should be awarded for killing monsters?
.

Skill challenges give you experience for the difficulty of acquiring the treasure.(and if the treasure is appropriate for that then tadah.. you just got experience for acquiring treasure.

Now realize the same is true of monsters which also can be seen to establish that difficulty in acquiring a treasure.... and you see that its already in 4e.

Sometimes I have to laugh at what people think are "differences"

Garthanos · Feb 17, 2018

cavalier973 said:
I don't have a lot of time, right now, but I plan to post ideas of mine own, from time to time.

Love to hear them.

Garthanos · Feb 17, 2018

Language in D&D has always been first and foremost flavor so alignment languages for Law and Chaos should work just fine.

pemerton · Feb 17, 2018

For the elf class I'd start with the Bladesinger. The dwarf would default to fighter, but maybe runepriest for something a bit different? Halflings might be best done as DEX rangers so as to distinguish them from thieves.

You'll want to find a way to integrate Diplomacy skill into the reaction table, and Intimidate skill into morale rolls.

cavalier973 · Feb 17, 2018

The role for the Elf class could be controller, with defender as the secondary. Take the PH1 wizard, grant martial weapon proficiencies, armor and shield proficiencies, and allow powers from either the fighter or wizard classes, like a hybrid.

Or, to save money, simply reskin the hexblade (arcane striker).

cavalier973 · Feb 17, 2018

Dwarves and Halflings get extra bonuses to Fort, Ref, and Will, to reflect the better saving throws of Basic.

Level limits...not sure I like those, but without them, supposedly, no one would play a human. In basic, the level limits for elves, dwarves, and halflings were 10, 12, and 8(!) respectively, which supposedly balanced the demihumans' extra abilities. Perhaps the Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling paragon paths would be more restricted in terms of power options, sort of like an essentials class...