D&D 5E Breaking the Game with Double Bonus Actions

iamntbatman · Feb 20, 2018

In a session I was DMing, a player wanted to forgo using her action to instead use two bonus actions (one to command a beast from a Bag of Tricks, the other to cast Healing Word). I ruled that this wasn't possible as it's not permitted per RAW, but I immediately caught a lot of flak for the ruling at the table because they all thought it was nuts that you couldn't use a bonus action as an action in lieu of taking an action, especially as the PHB says bonus actions are especially swift.

I swear that somewhere I've read examples of people doing this that were obviously overpowered or game-breaking. I'm not really concerned with doubling up on bonus action spells as that's not permitted per RAW anyway. The only examples I've seen in a thread I've asked elsewhere were basically doubling up on using things like Spiritual Weapon or Bigby's Hand, but even in those cases it didn't seem ludicrously overpowered or game-breaking to me (maybe with Bigby's Hand...).

I'm considering changing the house rules to allow using a BA instead of your action, as long as it's not the same bonus action twice on your turn. I'm looking for anecdotes of people who have allowed similar house rules and either problematic or problem-free experiences afterward, or either tested or white room examples of using two bonus actions in a single turn that would break things horribly.

Thanks!

jodyjohnson · Feb 20, 2018

I allow using an action to perform what is normally a bonus action provided the character still qualifies to take the bonus action in the first place.

For example a monk couldn't Flurry of Blows twice in the same round. And the limitation on spells still applies (cantrip only with a bonus action spell).

iamntbatman · Feb 20, 2018

jodyjohnson said:
I allow using an action to perform what is normally a bonus action provided the character still qualifies to take the bonus action in the first place.

For example a monk couldn't Flurry of Blows twice in the same round. And the limitation on spells still applies (cantrip only with a bonus action spell).

How long have you been allowing this, and has it ever caused any problems?

FrogReaver · Feb 20, 2018

iamntbatman said:
In a session I was DMing, a player wanted to forgo using her action to instead use two bonus actions (one to command a beast from a Bag of Tricks, the other to cast Healing Word). I ruled that this wasn't possible as it's not permitted per RAW, but I immediately caught a lot of flak for the ruling at the table because they all thought it was nuts that you couldn't use a bonus action as an action in lieu of taking an action, especially as the PHB says bonus actions are especially swift.

I swear that somewhere I've read examples of people doing this that were obviously overpowered or game-breaking. I'm not really concerned with doubling up on bonus action spells as that's not permitted per RAW anyway. The only examples I've seen in a thread I've asked elsewhere were basically doubling up on using things like Spiritual Weapon or Bigby's Hand, but even in those cases it didn't seem ludicrously overpowered or game-breaking to me (maybe with Bigby's Hand...).

I'm considering changing the house rules to allow using a BA instead of your action, as long as it's not the same bonus action twice on your turn. I'm looking for anecdotes of people who have allowed similar house rules and either problematic or problem-free experiences afterward, or either tested or white room examples of using two bonus actions in a single turn that would break things horribly.

Thanks!

It would allow a bard to give out bardic inspiration dice a lot faster. I can't think of much else. The only bonus actions that could break the game would be spells and I'm fairly certain that even if you could use two bonus actions that the rules forbid you from being able to use both to cast a spell.

ad_hoc · Feb 20, 2018

My hunch is that it is not allowed because it would further complicate Bonus Actions.

Bacon Bits · Feb 20, 2018

Bonus actions are pretty clearly not as time consuming as a regular action. Since time is the primary limitation of a turn, l can't imagine any situations where two bonus actions would be more broken than a bonus and a standard action. I might rule that a player could not take two bonus actions from the same feature or effect in one turn unless that action was also usable as a standard action, but that's probably all.

5ekyu · Feb 20, 2018

Honestly as often as i see "man it would be good if i could do both these..." type situations in combat specifically for bonus actions it seems not at all by accident by by intent thst certain things were thrown into BA to **LIMIT** their use.

I sometimes describe Bonus actions as either Restricted Actions or Vircumstantial actions specifically to get away from the "its just an action" mindset.

Removing the BA limit wont likely break a game, neither would saying cure light wounds heals double on haflings cuz they are small

But other than powering up certain class combos what does it add to remove the restriction?

I mean healing word limits your spelk for your turn even if you get extra actions while CLW doesn't so thats a limit.

If the action for BA were allowed...

I would never really see Cure light used over healing word... Now i see it when the cleric wants to use his BA for strikes w spirit wpn and heal some folks. Cure light is rare only when its just one target hurt and hurt enough to need cures.

Definitely think there are some other BA extra damage type conflucts.

jgsugden · Feb 20, 2018

Tell the good story.

The rules are designed to help you tell a good story, but they should never get in the way of telling the good story. If it makes sense for a PC to be able to do two bonus actions in a 6 second period, and the player is willing to forgo the action... go for it unless it clearly breaks the game open.

They were really trying to prevent the mentality that an action accounted for something like 2.5 seconds, a reaction 1.5 seconds, and a bonus action 1 second. They didn't want players to feel "entitled" to bonus actions and reactions. They tried to distance the rules from treating them like a slot to be filled each round. However, the reality is that most players look at a round as a series of an action, a bonus action, an interact with object, a movement and a reaction - with players figuring out how to fill each of those 'slots' every round. Not all players do it, but a lot do.

It was a noble attempt to make the game more of a story and less of a video game, but it was doomed to fail... and it managed to create certain nonsensical rules as it was put into place. In an effort to avoid this idea of an economy, they disallowed taking two bonus actions rather than a bonus and an action. However, there are very few combinations of bonus actions in 5E that are abusive.

Li Shenron · Feb 20, 2018

iamntbatman said:
In a session I was DMing, a player wanted to forgo using her action to instead use two bonus actions (one to command a beast from a Bag of Tricks, the other to cast Healing Word). I ruled that this wasn't possible as it's not permitted per RAW, but I immediately caught a lot of flak for the ruling at the table because they all thought it was nuts that you couldn't use a bonus action as an action in lieu of taking an action, especially as the PHB says bonus actions are especially swift.

I wouldn't worry until some specific overpowered case comes up. After all, you're making a house rule, if it doesn't work as intended you can just undo it.

That said, I generally think it's wrong to think of bonus actions as additional small "slots" in your turn. They are rather "stuff you can merge with your action". You can think of it a bit similar to doing something with your left hand while doing another thing with your right hand: you can't give up your right hand to do two things with the left.

Nevvur · Feb 20, 2018

@Li Shenron gets to the crux of it IMO. All types of actions are resolved sequentially, but many bonus actions are only activated when certain other actions take place such, such that they flow together into a sort of single compound action in a narrative sense. The biggest exception, of course, is bonus action spells, which are quite discrete from other actions. If you want to fine tune this house rule, that's one distinction you might want to look at.

Regardless, as some others have suggested, you'll probably be fine. You'll also have a much clearer picture after testing it out, and, once again citing Li, there's no harm in nixing it if it doesn't pan out.