Fluff, Rules, and the Cleric/Warlock Multiclass (WITH POLL!)

MechaTarrasque · Feb 23, 2018

Seramus said:
Corellon commands you to work closely with his trusted servant, the ancient unicorn Ri Darin. Boom. Cleric/Warlock.
Asmodeus commands you to assist and guard his daughter Glasya. Boom. Cleric/Warlock.

Too many people are stuck on the idea that gods are jealous. Only some of them are.

Hold up there, Hell has auditors (most are bone devils), and since souls are currency, there are some serious accounting questions that relate to the Asmodeus/Glasya combination (and "neither is after the warlock/cleric's soul" doesn't pass the smell test). Who actually owns that soul?

Funny that people are stuck on gods being jealous when the real issue is that patrons are greedy. Even the GOO's work more on "don't talk to your food" (don't throw stones, when is the last time you talked to the cow that became part of your Happy Meal? [and I bet the cow was happy that predators were "unaware of its existence" right up to the slaughterhouse]), and let's face it, Cthulhu eats humanoids like M&M's....

Edit: Since I assume Asmodeus is a fiend, he could also be the patron, thus avoid pesky audit issues.

neogod22 · Feb 23, 2018

I don't like the idea of a cleric/warlock multiclass for the same reason I dont like the Paladin/warlock multiclass. The devotion a cleric gives to their god(or oath in the paladin's case), will not allow them to serve 2 masters. Also one thing that people don't consider is the mental state of a cleric. You're someone chosen by your god to receive the blessings of your god. Actually, it's more than a blessing, you share in your god's power. You are the one that performs the miracles of your god. Not only that but you're also guaranteed your spot in your god's heaven when you die. Trying to gain power from another entity would mean jeopardizing everything you worked your life towards.

Seramus · Feb 23, 2018

lowkey13 said:
As I already stated, people come into this with different conceptions. In my group, the idea of "designing out" a character is anathema. You start at level one, and things happen from there. I prefer an emergent story; but I (and my table) are not representative of everyone. *shrug*

So when you go on about creating a "Spawn" character, or a "Ghost rider," all I can think is, "Well, more power to ya, but that's not what I'm doing." And it would be truly awesome if you would accord the same respect back. Know what I mean?

Perhaps it would help us understand your position better if we had more insight into how your game is played. How does your table know exactly what class is organically being gained? Is it done through table consensus, like "What does everyone think? Have I been acting more like a Barbarian or a Ranger lately?" or does the DM assign classes based on how he thinks the characters have been acting, like "You've had a pretty organized approach to combat. Sounds like a Fighter."

MechaTarrasque said:
the real issue is that patrons are greedy.

Some patrons are certainly greedy, some are extremely pragmatic, some could care less as long as you get the job done, some are interested in only the terms of the bargain, some are benevolent and kind, some only care if you behave according to their ideals, and some don't even know you exist at all.

77IM · Feb 23, 2018

lowkey13 said:
[MENTION=6880599]
As I already stated, people come into this with different conceptions. In my group, the idea of "designing out" a character is anathema. You start at level one, and things happen from there.

Interesting...

The game text (both rules and fluff) exist primarily to get people to have the same conceptions. Since your group is already on the same page about this kind of thing, it makes sense that you'd already have a clear and coherent idea about what it means to be a cleric/warlock multiclass character.

And, since D&D supports such a broad player base, it makes sense that different people could read that same game text and come to different conclusions about it. It's a design feature of D&D that certain things about setting and genre are easy to tailor to player's preferences. It's kind of the opposite of "opinionated" design. Mellow design? Inclusive design? ...

lowkey13 · Feb 23, 2018

*Deleted by user*

lowkey13 · Feb 23, 2018

*Deleted by user*

TwoSix · Feb 23, 2018

lowkey13 said:
I prefer to think of it as an open framework that allows opinionated people to harsh each others' mellows, repeatedly, over the internet, with no possible resolution.

Hopefully, we can all agree that the best possible multiclass for a cleric OR a warlock is a katana.

lowkey13 · Feb 23, 2018

*Deleted by user*

neogod22 · Feb 23, 2018

Li Shenron said:
What if a Cleric's god tells her that she has to make a pact with a patron? For example a good deity forcing her cleric to get a celestial patron who served the deity itself, in order to grow and better serve the cause. Same could happen with an evil deity and fiendish patron, or a nature deity and fey patron, or a crazy deity and GOO patron.

What if the cleric accidentally makes a pact that cannot be easily broken, for example is tricked into signing a contract with an archdevil or bonding with a hex, and the deity doesn't want to abandon her?

What if the pact occurred prior to the character becoming a Cleric? The iconic "sell your soul" pact doesn't require the character any specific behaviour because the price is paid after life, but perhaps the character takes clerical vows exactly in hope it would help her break a pact she regrets, and the deity is pleased and accepts her?

The first part is, no. It's kind of like telling your girlfriend to have sex with your employee knowing it gives no benefit for you.

The second part is impossible, you can't accidentally make a pact to be a warlock. You have to have full knowledge in what you are doing, but that doesn't mean you have to,understand the consequences. Like for example a woman "tricked" into doing open because they think it will help their career. They have full knowledge in what they're doing, but might not understand that they are actually destroying their chance of having a career in the mainstream.

The third part is a very unlikely. They've chosen to become a warlock and therefore bound their soul to the entity giving them power. A god probably won't find someone who hasn't completely devoted their life to them worthy of power.

TwoSix · Feb 23, 2018

neogod22 said:
The second part is impossible, you can't accidentally make a pact to be a warlock. You have to have full knowledge in what you are doing, but that doesn't mean you have to,understand the consequences. Like for example a woman "tricked" into doing open because they think it will help their career. They have full knowledge in what they're doing, but might not understand that they are actually destroying their chance of having a career in the mainstream.

Why? I would allow that storyline, no problem. A family curse makes perfect sense for a warlock.

Fluff, Rules, and the Cleric/Warlock Multiclass (WITH POLL!)

Can you have a multiclass Cleric/Warlock?

No. The rules prohibit it.

No. The fluff prohibits it.

Yes.

Other (no deities, no multiclassing, etc.).

I AM NOT A NUMBER, I AM A FREE MAN!

MechaTarrasque

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TwoSix

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