D&D 5E Monk rules question

Njall · Feb 22, 2018

Baph0met said:
Player wants to hold a crossbow (crossbow expert) and a Longsword at the same time, take the attack action at lvl 5, to deliver an unarmed strike with the first attack (a kick) proccing Agile Parry, then drop the sword, shoot the crossbow with the second attack during the attack action and use the crossbow expert's bonus action to fire the crossbow again (with hand free) and then pick up the sword.

Sorry, I might be missing something, but why does he need to drop the sword at all? Assuming both the crossbow and the longsword are kensei weapons, couldn't he simply attack with an unarmed strike (proccing agile parry ), attack with either the longsword or the crossbow ( both are one handed weapons ) and proc the bonus attack with the crossbow due to Crossbow Expert?
Or just avoid the longsword altogether, since agile parry doesn't require a melee weapon, but just a kensei weapon?

jaelis · Feb 22, 2018

He needs to reload the crossbow. And the kensei AC bonus does require a melee weapon.

"you can use it to defend yourself if it is a melee weapon"

Satyrn · Feb 22, 2018

Njall said:
Sorry, I might be missing something, but why does he need to drop the sword at all? Assuming both the crossbow and the longsword are kensei weapons, couldn't he simply attack with an unarmed strike (proccing agile parry ), attack with either the longsword or the crossbow ( both are one handed weapons ) and proc the bonus attack with the crossbow due to Crossbow Expert?
Or just avoid the longsword altogether, since agile parry doesn't require a melee weapon, but just a kensei weapon?

Aye, the sword doesn't look to be needed at all.

Njall · Feb 23, 2018

jaelis said:
He needs to reload the crossbow. And the kensei AC bonus does require a melee weapon.

"you can use it to defend yourself if it is a melee weapon"

True, my bad

Satyrn · Feb 23, 2018

Njall said:
True, my bad

Mine, too

Cap'n Kobold · Feb 24, 2018

doctorbadwolf said:
how so?

As pointed out, the sequence is entirely legal by the mechanics, but is pretty ridiculous when you think of as what the character actually is doing every round: what it would look like in a movie for example.

Once-off: the character booting one foe to stun them, flipping their sword into the air or sticking it into the ground, shooting another foe, reloading and shooting again, then snatching their sword up to parry blows from the first opponent. Looks really cool. (Assuming you hand-wave handcrossbows as semi-automatic weapons as the rules do rather than treat them like the actual historical weapons.)
I could definitely see a character in a movie do that. Once.

Doing that every round, as the character's usual attack sequence however loses the cool factor and becomes obviously a rules-mechanics dodge. Hence Rule 7.

ClaytonCross · Feb 24, 2018

Baph0met said:
Player wants to hold a Hand crossbow (crossbow expert) and a Longsword at the same time, take the attack action at lvl 5, to deliver an unarmed strike with the first attack (a kick) proccing Agile Parry, ~~then drop the sword,~~ shoot the crossbow with the second attack during the attack action and use the crossbow expert's bonus action to fire the crossbow again (with hand free) ~~and then pick up the sword~~.

..Edited in the hand crossbow per your next post.

The hand crossbow is a one handed weapon, the Longsword can be used one handed, the unarmed strike can be a kick.

Relevant Crossbow Expert exert:
"When you use the Attack action and attack with a onehanded weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a loaded hand crossbow you are holding."

The only real problem is why is the the player dropping his sword for no reason. A hand crossbow can be loaded with 2 fingers on the sword hand its not like a full size crossbow where you need to brace it. I actually have a longsword and a hand crossbow at my house and I just tried it. Its not supper fast but then its the only time I have done that. I would guess if you trained it would be easy enough.

The real question is if you, the DM, want the player to be able to do that? If no, then say the model of crossbow does not have a load assist bar and the draw is to strong for him to load it one handed and if he drops his weapon your taking his +2 to AC.

If you don't mind it, then tell him not to drop his sword and he can do it fine, both rules and real life mechanics don't prevent it and I don't think its game breaking in anyway. I mean there are plenty of people finding ways to swing a short sword 3 times for the same 1d6 and as a monk he has flurry of blows which will out pace this quickly. I would say unless he has access to good poisons, the player will find its not that useful at later levels.

Oofta · Feb 24, 2018

ClaytonCross said:
..Edited in the hand crossbow per your next post.

The hand crossbow is a one handed weapon, the Longsword can be used one handed, the unarmed strike can be a kick.

Relevant Crossbow Expert exert:
"When you use the Attack action and attack with a onehanded weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a loaded hand crossbow you are holding."

The only real problem is why is the the player dropping his sword for no reason. A hand crossbow can be loaded with 2 fingers on the sword hand its not like a full size crossbow where you need to brace it. I actually have a longsword and a hand crossbow at my house and I just tried it. Its not supper fast but then its the only time I have done that. I would guess if you trained it would be easy enough.

The real question is if you, the DM, want the player to be able to do that? If no, then say the model of crossbow does not have a load assist bar and the draw is to strong for him to load it one handed and if he drops his weapon your taking his +2 to AC.

If you don't mind it, then tell him not to drop his sword and he can do it fine, both rules and real life mechanics don't prevent it and I don't think its game breaking in anyway. I mean there are plenty of people finding ways to swing a short sword 3 times for the same 1d6 and as a monk he has flurry of blows which will out pace this quickly. I would say unless he has access to good poisons, the player will find its not that useful at later levels.

You need a free hand to load a crossbow. From https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/PH-Errata.pdf

Ammunition (p. 146). Loading a onehanded weapon requires a free hand

Even before the errata, I would not have allowed it but that's water under the bridge now.

Cap'n Kobold · Feb 24, 2018

ClaytonCross said:
..Edited in the hand crossbow per your next post.

The hand crossbow is a one handed weapon, the Longsword can be used one handed, the unarmed strike can be a kick.

Relevant Crossbow Expert exert:
"When you use the Attack action and attack with a onehanded weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a loaded hand crossbow you are holding."

The only real problem is why is the the player dropping his sword for no reason. A hand crossbow can be loaded with 2 fingers on the sword hand its not like a full size crossbow where you need to brace it. I actually have a longsword and a hand crossbow at my house and I just tried it. Its not supper fast but then its the only time I have done that. I would guess if you trained it would be easy enough.

OK. I am seriously impressed. A renaissance hand crossbow capable of throwing a bolt with the same force as a shortbow would have a draw weight in the 200+lb range. Being able to draw that with a few fingers and juggle the release cylinder into position while holding something as awkward as a sword in your hand is a pretty major feat of power.
What would you say your Strength is in D&D terms?

thorgrit · Feb 24, 2018

I have nothing to add on the yes/no front, but if you wanted to allow it but in a less clunky way, allow the hand crossbow to be modified or specially built to be more rugged and have a heavy flat side that could be used as an (improvised?) club? That way it could count as a melee weapon. Or is the d8 of the longsword vs the d6 of martial arts a dealbreaker?

D&D 5E Monk rules question

Njall

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jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?

Satyrn

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Njall

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Satyrn

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Cap'n Kobold

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ClaytonCross

Kinder reader Inflection wanted

Oofta

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Cap'n Kobold

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thorgrit

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