Lances and Multiple Attacks

Satyrn · Feb 24, 2018

shidaku said:
Yes, it's +1 to damage and +1 to hit per sacrificed extra attack.

Has anybody used it with the battlemaster? I'm sort of wondering if you've ever had a player request a similar +1 on the DC of his manuevers. That'd be real tempting for me, even though I like making lots of attacks.

Seramus · Feb 24, 2018

shidaku said:
Yes, it's +1 to damage and +1 to hit per sacrificed extra attack.

I can definitely see the appeal of not having to roll so many times, but that would be a pretty big nerf to martial classes. I'm guessing you do the same thing with damage cantrips, but have you made changes to resource-costing spells to balance things out? Or are most of your players martial classes (or warlocks), so this change affects everyone equally?

Sunseeker · Feb 24, 2018

Seramus said:
I can definitely see the appeal of not having to roll so many times, but that would be a pretty big nerf to martial classes. I'm guessing you do the same thing with damage cantrips, but have you made changes to resource-costing spells to balance things out? Or are most of your players martial classes (or warlocks), so this change affects everyone equally?

It has NOTHING to do with balance. It has everything to do with convenience.

Satyrn said:
Has anybody used it with the battlemaster? I'm sort of wondering if you've ever had a player request a similar +1 on the DC of his manuevers. That'd be real tempting for me, even though I like making lots of attacks.

No, I haven't run a 5E game in a while, I'm in a pretty long-running 3.5 game so that's taking up all my time atm.

I think something needs to be done about the Battlemaster maneuvers, but I think that's more on the side of it having too few dice.

Satyrn · Feb 24, 2018

shidaku said:
I think something needs to be done about the Battlemaster maneuvers, but I think that's more on the side of it having too few dice.

I didn't feel like that. Well, it could maybe use one more, but after I took Martial Adept for my battlemaster (because I wanted more maneuvers) I certainly felt like I had plenty.

Seramus · Feb 24, 2018

shidaku said:
It has NOTHING to do with balance. It has everything to do with convenience.

I'm not sure I understand. If a better balanced option exists, and it was equally as convenient, wouldn't you want to use that?

Sunseeker · Feb 24, 2018

Satyrn said:
I didn't feel like that. Well, it could maybe use one more, but after I took Martial Adept for my battlemaster (because I wanted more maneuvers) I certainly felt like I had plenty.

Yeah, I wouldn't say more than 2 more are needed. It's sorta like the Elemental Monk, it needs a little bit more, but not much.

Seramus said:
I'm not sure I understand. If a better balanced option exists, and it was equally as convenient, wouldn't you want to use that?

A better option does exist, it's called 4th Edition. But if WotC isn't interested in creating a balanced game, I'm not interested in doing their footwork for them.

Seramus · Feb 24, 2018

shidaku said:
A better option does exist, it's called 4th Edition. But if WotC isn't interested in creating a balanced game, I'm not interested in doing their footwork for them.

When rolling 2d20, and keeping the maximum value across hundreds of permutations, the expected value is 13.825. By contrast, the expected value when you keep the minimum value is 7.175. The departure from the average of a single d20 is 3.325.

Short version: +3

That's slightly lower than the average of rolling two attacks (not including high level Fighters and Eldritch Blast).

Zardnaar · Feb 25, 2018

shidaku said:
Yeah, I wouldn't say more than 2 more are needed. It's sorta like the Elemental Monk, it needs a little bit more, but not much.

A better option does exist, it's called 4th Edition. But if WotC isn't interested in creating a balanced game, I'm not interested in doing their footwork for them.

More like the fanbase is not interested in it. They tried. Its putting up some good numbers online, 1.8% or so on d20.

Sunseeker · Feb 25, 2018

Zardnaar said:
More like the fanbase is not interested in it. They tried. Its putting up some good numbers online, 1.8% or so on d20.

Yep, and I am currently quite in a foul mood on the subject so will not go further as to avoid edition warring with folks.

Seramus said:
When rolling 2d20, and keeping the maximum value across hundreds of permutations, the expected value is 13.825. By contrast, the expected value when you keep the minimum value is 7.175. The departure from the average of a single d20 is 3.325.

Short version: +3

That's slightly lower than the average of rolling two attacks (not including high level Fighters and Eldritch Blast).

Okay? I guess it's a good thing I'm forcing you to use this houserule then. I'd hate it if you were able to play the game in a manner you enjoy or find more balanced. /sarcasm

Seriously I don't care. I didn't add the rule for balance. I added it for simplicity. It's not even required, it's optional, freely interchangeable at any time.

Your approval was neither asked for nor is it needed.

Seramus · Feb 25, 2018

shidaku said:
Okay? I guess it's a good thing I'm forcing you to use this houserule then. I'd hate it if you were able to play the game in a manner you enjoy or find more balanced. /sarcasm

Seriously I don't care. I didn't add the rule for balance. I added it for simplicity. It's not even required, it's optional, freely interchangeable at any time.

Your approval was neither asked for nor is it needed.

I'm so confused right now, it's blowing my mind.