Single mechanics that hurt an otherwise good game

Blue · Mar 4, 2018

Aldarc said:
Any system that mandates rolling up character creation. Optional? Fine. Mandatory? No.

Curious on the level of detail. Does this encompass older versions of D&D, with random ability scores and HPs/level? Or is this just at the level of something like original Traveler where your character could die during character creation? Or something in the middle like 1st ed Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay where your career was also random on top of just about everything else, but you couldn't actually die. (Though you could be a ratcatcher).

5ekyu · Mar 5, 2018

Blue said:
In actual play, those are my absolute least favorite. The death spiral where you character gets less and less effecive and more likely to die, becoming useless and just a drain. It's no fun to play, and even one bad die roll early can screw you up for the whole time.

Do you have an example where they work out well in play? I'd love to learn of a place that is done well.

I had thought of using that with a system I designed, but *all* PCs had a special ability (and some major NPCs) called "When the going gets tough..." that would reverse the penalties. So as you were wounded you got better at everything and harder to kill.

Really, a system that makes it easy to get into dire straights but hard to lose that last bit; where we can build tension but the heroes can win by the skin of their teeth -- that's the system I want for a heroic RPG.

I thought it worked well in MnM and some other variants based on it.

However, you are right that a key to those system is integration of hero point or other mechanics that help provide for the "moment of fury".

One of the keys with such a system is the balance between low and high results.

Jhaelen · Mar 5, 2018

Aldarc said:
Any system that mandates rolling up character creation. Optional? Fine. Mandatory? No.

and in addition to that: rolling for hit points.

Aldarc · Mar 5, 2018

Blue said:
Curious on the level of detail. Does this encompass older versions of D&D, with random ability scores and HPs/level? Or is this just at the level of something like original Traveler where your character could die during character creation? Or something in the middle like 1st ed Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay where your career was also random on top of just about everything else, but you couldn't actually die. (Though you could be a ratcatcher).

Mainly concerned about the character creation level. This may include rolling for stats, particularly roll stats in order, but also including rolling other starting attributes, backstories, features, or even character abilities, etc.

Imaculata · Mar 5, 2018

In third edition: Feats that bump one skill by 2 points.

Not game breaking, but so utterly useless. Who is going to sacrifice a feat (which you only get every 3 levels in 3rd edition) to increase a skill by two meager points, while you already get a bunch of free skill points every time you level up?

Mercule · Mar 5, 2018

Can I say "Pseudo-Vancian magic" without getting stoned?

Lylandra · Mar 5, 2018

Imaculata said:
In third edition: Feats that bump one skill by 2 points.

Not game breaking, but so utterly useless. Who is going to sacrifice a feat (which you only get every 3 levels in 3rd edition) to increase a skill by two meager points, while you already get a bunch of free skill points every time you level up?

well, a non-human fighter with INT 8 could have a need for them. But in general, I agree.

While being there... In 3.x: Whoever came up with classes with a meager 2 skillpoints and an INT based mechanic that could reduce your resulting SP to a lousy 1.

ccs · Mar 6, 2018

Rod Staffwand said:
Dungeon Crawl Classic's funky dice. d5? d7? d27? Nope. Get over yourselves.

Actually, any game that goes with an outlandish die mechanic or resolution system just for the sake of being different.

So pretty much every game that's not D&D designed between the late 70's - 2k (the birth of the OGL)??

Rod Staffwand · Mar 6, 2018

ccs said:
So pretty much every game that's not D&D designed between the late 70's - 2k (the birth of the OGL)??

I don't have a problem with non-D&D resolution systems. I've enjoyed a lot of them. It's mostly games from the last 10 years that require special dice (such as that newish Star Wars game) and similar contrivances (such as rolling red 'positive' dice and white 'negative' dice or some such). Even FATE is borderline for me, and that's a game that's pretty successful at what it wants to be. I liked Castle Falkenstein as well, though I'd never run it due to playing card resolution system (for as thematic as it is for that game).

If you need to reinvent the wheel to create a compelling game, you probably don't have a compelling game. Give me standard stat+roll vs. DC or dice pools or another tried and true resolution system, thanks.

Salamandyr · Mar 6, 2018

D&D--searching takes 10 minutes per 10' square searched. It's even worse when the DM doesn't know the rules (most of them) that players have a 1 in 6 chance (2 in 6 chance for dwarves) of detecting a trap (and even if undetected, then traps only have a 2 in 6 chance of triggering).

AD&D--a few things, but the biggest: 1 minute combat rounds. I guess one could say initiative in general, but no one understands it.

2nd Edition--too many to list, but could be summed up in the number of rules that sounded great from a narrative standpoint but made doing it darn near unplayable in game.

3rd Edition--that there is no diminishing return to skill improvement ruins what was otherwise an absolutely great theft of the Rolemaster mechanic for D&D.

5th Edition--the pillow fight phenomenon; everything has too darn many hit points.

GURPS--character creation; all of it

TRUE20/Mutants & Masterminds--the Toughness save/too many stuns.

Marvel Superheroes--there's no defensive effect. A high Agility (like Spider-man) just hads his Agility points to his health. Unless he actively dodges (and loses his action, he's no harder to hit than Aunt May.

Traveller--if you're not trained in a skill, you have a -3 penalty to all rolls against it.

Rolemaster--just too many skills, and too parsed out.

WEG Star Wars/D6 system: I don't like the wild die.

Trying to think if there is anything else I've played enough to have an opinion on.