Tailoring treasure to the party

Dinkeldog · Mar 7, 2002

Hey, this came up in one of the story hour threads last week and I wanted to bring this up here.

The issue: player A (the primary fighter in the group) has spent his career working with bastard swords, putting feats into weapon focus and weapon specialization. The DM comes up with a magical sword with bonuses that make it well worth having. The DM makes the magical sword a long sword. None of the other players is interested in a long sword (non-proficient or other reasons). The player has to throw away his bastard sword feats so that he can use the long sword that was earned through adventure.

Does anyone else here tailor the treasure the party gets to the characters in the party? I have a party wizard that is a transmuter with evocation as his prohibited school. I deliberately changed wands of magic missiles and lightning bolt to things that he could use. I had no player interested in powering up on long swords, so I made one an axe and another a short sword. Does anyone else play like this?

hong · Mar 7, 2002

Use the "nemuranai" rules in Magic of Rokugan. Basically the party's items become magically awakened as they gain in power, thus solving the problem of wasted treasure.

This has other benefits, such as cutting down on the looting mentality, keeping control over what items the party has, and giving magic back some mystique.

This didn't really answer your question, did it?

Dinkeldog · Mar 7, 2002

Not quite, hong, and I'm unlikely to see Magic of Rokugan until I can get home.

I like the concept of magic items that gain more power as the players progress. However, it doesn't solve the problem where the items given to the players are the longswords when the character is specializing in greatsword, bastard sword or short sword. In the latter case, it's like the DM is deliberately punishing the players for not following stereotype.

hong · Mar 7, 2002

Dinkeldog said:
I like the concept of magic items that gain more power as the players progress. However, it doesn't solve the problem where the items given to the players are the longswords when the character is specializing in greatsword, bastard sword or short sword. In the latter case, it's like the DM is deliberately punishing the players for not following stereotype.

Well, it "solves" the problem by making PCs less dependent on the items they find. In this case, it doesn't matter so much that they find a useless longsword, because they can be (fairly) certain their own weapons will continue to match their power level. They thus aren't punished for wanting to use unique items.

Another aspect of nemuranai is that they usually work only for the original owner. Thus it's no use stealing the big bad guy's longsword, because the spirit living inside the weapon won't respond to anyone else. Basically, the whole question of what loot to give out becomes secondary.

shilsen · Mar 7, 2002

I go both ways on this. If the party only encounters treasure that they can use, that tends to cut down on the verisimilitude of the game world. At the same time, if they find nothing that they can use, it gets irritating fast. So my PCs often find things that seem tailored to them (and are), and also find things that they've not necessarily taken Weapon Focus/Spec. in. Also leads to some highly enjoyable moments (for DM and players), like when the brave cleric rushes into battle with a magical shortsword (non-proficient), since it's the only magical item he has that can hurt a particular foe.

Rybaer · Mar 7, 2002

I usually mix it up with magic treasure. Some is just straight randomly rolled and the rest is tweaked a bit to be more favorable to the party. This is particularly true if I feel a particular player is being shafted on items...something up their alley is more likely to come along.

I've also begun experimenting with "growth" magic items that gain in power as the character levels. Currently, they each were granted an item that gains appx 1 new ability or improves a previous one every even character level. They might end up a bit powerful, but should be fun and develop into signature items over time.

-Rybaer

hong · Mar 7, 2002

Rybaer said:
I usually mix it up with magic treasure. Some is just straight randomly rolled and the rest is tweaked a bit to be more favorable to the party. This is particularly true if I feel a particular player is being shafted on items...something up their alley is more likely to come along.

I've also begun experimenting with "growth" magic items that gain in power as the character levels. Currently, they each were granted an item that gains appx 1 new ability or improves a previous one every even character level. They might end up a bit powerful, but should be fun and develop into signature items over time.

There's an article in Dragon 289 (the kung fu issue) about weapons and armour that gain powers as their users gain levels. The user basically spends XP to activate the powers of the item, which are assumed to remain latent until this happens. The XP cost is 1/5th the equivalent base price. This is a bit on the steep side IMO; in the campaign I was in until recently, the DM reduced this to 1/10th the base price, but also added in a time requirement (the same as would be needed to enchant the item).

DMaple · Mar 7, 2002

Dinkeldog said:
Hey, this came up in one of the story hour threads last week and I wanted to bring this up here.

The issue: player A (the primary fighter in the group) has spent his career working with bastard swords, putting feats into weapon focus and weapon specialization. The DM comes up with a magical sword with bonuses that make it well worth having. The DM makes the magical sword a long sword. None of the other players is interested in a long sword (non-proficient or other reasons). The player has to throw away his bastard sword feats so that he can use the long sword that was earned through adventure.

Can't he just sell the Longsword and then use the money to buy a similar Bastard Sword.

Victim · Mar 7, 2002

Our DM uses random treasure rolls, or the listed treasure. So far, the only character that found a weapon upgrade in the level 6 - 10 range has been the sorceress.

However, item creation feats are readily availibile in many games. When you take that longsword, sacrifice it to your diety, harness its magic, or just sell the thing, and then make a spiffy bastard sword, it doesn't matter what you find. Item creation feats essentially turn fixed items into liquid resources.

Shaele · Mar 7, 2002

I'm with DMaple on this one [edit: ...and Victim, who posted while I was banging this out]... I plant treasure that logically makes sense, and encourage PCs to make/find their own equipment as necessary. Planting equipment seems contrived and removes a lot of the challenge for PCs.

In 2E, I did plant a fair bit of equipment - for the reasons you mentioned. Item creation was basically impossible, and 70% of all swords were longswords, so using a non-standard weapon really hurt the character. 3E creation feats makes magic item creation a trivial thing - if you have the time and money and the feat.

Encourage the PCs to sell the sword, and make (or hire someone to make) a more appropriate weapon. This type of problem can help evolve the campaign; the party might develop lasting relationships with organizations or NPCs (like the merchant/weapon collector that likes to purchase "interesting" weapons, or a gnomish transmuter who would be willing to create them a unique sword, if they could only help him with a problem that he's having...)

--shaele