How grim and hopeless is Midnight?

There is some talk about our group starting a Midnight game. I have skimmed the setting and read some of the forums. My question is this how grim is the setting? Is it hopeless can the PCs ever accomplish anything or is evil just following them and undoing everything they do?

I have also heard that it is not a Midnight game unless a PC dies every session.

Elf Witch said:

There is some talk about our group starting a Midnight game. I have skimmed the setting and read some of the forums. My question is this how grim is the setting? Is it hopeless can the PCs ever accomplish anything or is evil just following them and undoing everything they do?

I have also heard that it is not a Midnight game unless a PC dies every session.

Click to expand...

I probably should let other people answer, but this topic comes up so often that I thought I'd chime in.

The first thing to say is that everyone's game can be anything they want it to be. Midnight itself, in my mind, does not tell you what kind of game to run. Now that said, doing something like dismantling the Night Kings, defeating Izrador, or letting the old gods back into the world (disabling the Veil) will definitely take away Midnight's main strengths. Those types of victories might be ok if you never plan to run or play in the game again.

Hope in Midnight comes on a smaller scale than in other settings. No, you aren't going to free the world, but you can bring aid and respite to communities. You can take out a particularly nasty legate who makes everyone's lives a living hell. You can help the elves drive away the demons and orcs that taint the forests of Erethor. You can carve out a new Sarcosan kingdom, although there's no guarantee it's going to be around for long.

What you have to remember is that while evil has won, it is not ubiquitous and omnipotent. Think of it as the opposite of a normal setting, in which, while Good is dominant, you still have Evil countries (Thay, for example) or areas (Menzoberranzan).

The assertion that PCs should die every session seems against the spirit of Midnight, which assumes that the PCs are truly heroic for fighting against all odds.

Hope that helps a bit.

Wil's got the right of it, methinks. I just picked Midnight up this weekend at Shorecon, and I agree. Defeating a god of Evil is no small task, nor is defeating the Night Kings, his chosen avatars of the world's greatest heroes.

The heroes may never win against the great evil...but they can began mankind back down the trail to hope. Mankind is beaten and lost, and not every hero is going to eventually go to battle against the epic power of Izrador and his minions. But that's what makes the setting so appealing, IMHO.

Unlike Call of Cthulu, where facing the truth is eventually realizing that you've already lost, and are just prolonging the inevitable, Midnight is about hope. Hope that one day, Izrador can be driven back, or that the good dieties can be contacted anew. Simply hope that tomorrow will be better than today.

BECAUSE IT CAN BE.

Midnight is all about creating hope from hopelessness, and finding a way to be heroic when everyone else has given up. The setting breeds heroes, whereas Call of Cthulu just breeds victims.

Well, it's certainly not as grim as Ravenloft...
The land itself isn't evil and trying to corrupt you,
in fact it seems to try to help good heroes out
by providing them additional power to fight
Izrador and his minions from sucking all the magic
out of the land.

Heck, I don't even think it's as grim as Dark Sun...
Hey, I just killed that nasty psionic headcruncher...
And I found me a broken bone sword! This will work
so much better than my broken flannel sword...

WizarDru said:

Midnight is all about creating hope from hopelessness, and finding a way to be heroic when everyone else has given up.

Click to expand...

I'm about 3/4 of the way through the book and I think this statement best sums up the way I see the setting. Generally, your charcters are doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do. Even if your character dies, it's very likely that some act of yours has inspired the next batch of heroes or given that glimmer of hope to those who have lost it.

The setting seems to readily lend itself to some epic (as in memorable) campaigns. I really want to play in this world. Just need to convince the current group.

Elodan said:

I'm about 3/4 of the way through the book and I think this statement best sums up the way I see the setting. Generally, your charcters are doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do. Even if your character dies, it's very likely that some act of yours has inspired the next batch of heroes or given that glimmer of hope to those who have lost it.

The setting seems to readily lend itself to some epic (as in memorable) campaigns. I really want to play in this world. Just need to convince the current group.

Click to expand...

If you want to convince them to play, just have them read Paka's story hour or read about this actual play experience:

http://www.againsttheshadow.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=248

Who wouldn't want to be a part of either?

Elodan said:

I'm about 3/4 of the way through the book and I think this statement best sums up the way I see the setting. Generally, your charcters are doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do. Even if your character dies, it's very likely that some act of yours has inspired the next batch of heroes or given that glimmer of hope to those who have lost it.

The setting seems to readily lend itself to some epic (as in memorable) campaigns.

Click to expand...

This sounds dead on. I havn't played in Midnight, but I have played in a couple other games with the same premise: the forces of darkness have won, and now you the PCs do whatever they can to restore the light, while struggling to even survive.

One of the biggest, and yet most subtle, differences between Midnight and other epic campaigns is that in most other epics the heroes strive to hold back the darkness. They fight a holding action, a siege. But in Midnight, the darkness has already won, the lands have already been corrupted, so the only thing left to lose is hope. But when you have nothing to lose except hope, and the perils are seemingly insurmountable, then you see who the true heroes are. Everyone will fight to save their home, everyone will fight when cornered, but who will fight against an omnipresent enemy who can't be beaten, when being exposed as a freedom fighter means death.

To use a real world analogy, Midnight isn't a brave battle against foreign invaders, or a holy crusade. It's the French resistance, where secret heroes fight against an insurmountable foe. But in Midnight there will be no D-Day, so the resistance has to do it all themselves, no matter what the cost.

Heck, I don't even think it's as grim as Dark Sun...

Click to expand...

True. At least in Midnight there is a chance, albeit a very slim one, that the champions of evil can be defeated and driven back. On Athas, even defeating ALL the 'big bad nasties' still means your screwed.

Not being that familiar with Athas/Dark Sun....what happens if you beat all the big bads, theoretically?

Not being that familiar with Athas/Dark Sun....what happens if you beat all the big bads, theoretically?

Click to expand...

You die of starvation, dehydration, and quite possibly leprosy, having wasted all your resources in the wars

(Edit : This is basically a guess. I've enver played DS, but I own a book or two).