Can anyone point me to an excellent, visual, article on dungeon design? (or the lost images of a certain enworld thread xD)

kagayaku · Mar 23, 2018

Hey all,

I'm looking for any recommendations of good articles about compelling dungeon design (even if it's really written for video games). I'm really not looking for walls of text though; good visualisations, flow charts, etc. go a long way to aid understanding (and honestly, just save me a lot of time). Alternatively, if anyone has a great one line tip that must be shared, well it must be shared

My searches have actually led me to an old thread here from 3 other sites - but alas, the images have all expired on PhotoBucket. xD It's a shame because it looks like a great thread, but the OP hasn't been on the site for a number of years as far as I can tell. Ah well.

If not, metroidvania design it is! (though perhaps with a few more split branches...)

Thanks a lot,
Kagayaku

delericho · Mar 23, 2018

The Alexandrian wrote a series on articles ("Jaquaying the Dungeon") that uses many of the same techniques, and also uses diagrams of the same format as in the post you linked. I've linked to the first article in the series.

I hope that helps!

kagayaku · Mar 23, 2018

delericho said:
The Alexandrian wrote a series on articles ("Jaquaying the Dungeon") that uses many of the same techniques, and also uses diagrams of the same format as in the post you linked. I've linked to the first article in the series.

I hope that helps!

This is perfect! Thank you, delericho. Now I have some interesting reading (with diagrams! :lol:

) that may well make my game better

MNblockhead · Mar 23, 2018

I have an old copy of Dungeons by Central Casting. You can still get it on Amazo: https://www.amazon.com/Central-Casting-Dungeons-Robert-Sassone/dp/0922335524

EDIT: Yikes! Didn't notice the price. Didn't see it in DTRPG, so I'm unsure if there is a legal and affordable PDF option. I hope so, it is a good book...just not something to spend $80 on.

Lanefan · Mar 24, 2018

delericho said:
The Alexandrian wrote a series on articles ("Jaquaying the Dungeon") that uses many of the same techniques, and also uses diagrams of the same format as in the post you linked. I've linked to the first article in the series.

I hope that helps!

That article spells out in nice clear terms a bunch of things I've been not-so-clearly saying for ages.

A good example of a well-jacquayed dungeon is L1 Secret of Bone Hill.

Lanefan

kagayaku · Mar 25, 2018

MNblockhead said:
I have an old copy of Dungeons by Central Casting. You can still get it on Amazo: https://www.amazon.com/Central-Casting-Dungeons-Robert-Sassone/dp/0922335524

EDIT: Yikes! Didn't notice the price. Didn't see it in DTRPG, so I'm unsure if there is a legal and affordable PDF option. I hope so, it is a good book...just not something to spend $80 on.

Haha. Yeah, thanks but I'll pass on that one

I got plenty of ideas from the article anyway!

Lanefan said:
That article spells out in nice clear terms a bunch of things I've been not-so-clearly saying for ages.

A good example of a well-jacquayed dungeon is L1 Secret of Bone Hill.

Lanefan

It was a good read and well put together. I'll take a look at that dungeon if I find it laying about on the web some place but 1e goes a little before my time :lol:

Lanefan · Mar 25, 2018

kagayaku said:
I'll take a look at that dungeon if I find it laying about on the web some place but 1e goes a little before my time

While not as good or as intricate as Bone Hill, a somewhat more recent well-known dungeon that's worth a look from a design perspective is 3e's Forge of Fury.

Spoiler alert for Princes of the Apocalypse...

[sblock]For 5e, the (four? five?) interconnected elemental dungeons in Princes of the Apocalypse (the ones deep underground, not the little ones on the surface) are worth a look if taken as a whole; and at least two of them - water and earth, if memory serves - have at least a few design merits just in themselves. The four-or-five together form what amounts to a great big loop, with exits to the surface at each element's dungeon-y bit. Best of all, those exits go up through another dungeon in each case (which is brilliant design!) but in theory one that's already been cleaned out.

It's possible, though - if you want to be something of a nasty DM - to ignore or significantly butcher the pre-written plot and just run it such that they go in through one of the surface adventures - let's say earth - then find the way down and explore. This will almost certainly see them not only do the much-harder dungeon they've come down into, but go around the loop and thus do three more; and if they try to get back out any other way except where they went in they're going to hit another entirely separate dungeon from below! (for added fun you could even substitute completely different modules for those surface dungeons...)

Now I'm annoyed I didn't think of this several years ago, when my game's PCs were more of an appropriate level. Just think - four supposedly independent and disconnected dungeon modules on the surface, each with a way down to one of four more modules (the ones from PotA) that are connected below ground and that could then each have a connection to a fifth one - a boss one - further down yet. I could get years of play out of that!

[/sblock]

Lanefan

kagayaku · Apr 11, 2018

Lanefan said:
While not as good or as intricate as Bone Hill, a somewhat more recent well-known dungeon that's worth a look from a design perspective is 3e's Forge of Fury.

Spoiler alert for Princes of the Apocalypse...

[sblock]For 5e, the (four? five?) interconnected elemental dungeons in Princes of the Apocalypse (the ones deep underground, not the little ones on the surface) are worth a look if taken as a whole; and at least two of them - water and earth, if memory serves - have at least a few design merits just in themselves. The four-or-five together form what amounts to a great big loop, with exits to the surface at each element's dungeon-y bit. Best of all, those exits go up through another dungeon in each case (which is brilliant design!) but in theory one that's already been cleaned out.

It's possible, though - if you want to be something of a nasty DM - to ignore or significantly butcher the pre-written plot and just run it such that they go in through one of the surface adventures - let's say earth - then find the way down and explore. This will almost certainly see them not only do the much-harder dungeon they've come down into, but go around the loop and thus do three more; and if they try to get back out any other way except where they went in they're going to hit another entirely separate dungeon from below! (for added fun you could even substitute completely different modules for those surface dungeons...)

Now I'm annoyed I didn't think of this several years ago, when my game's PCs were more of an appropriate level. Just think - four supposedly independent and disconnected dungeon modules on the surface, each with a way down to one of four more modules (the ones from PotA) that are connected below ground and that could then each have a connection to a fifth one - a boss one - further down yet. I could get years of play out of that! [/sblock]

Lanefan

Sorry Lanefan, I could've sworn I replied to you already on this. I did have a good look at the dungeons you suggested, along with I think all the others mentioned in this thread which I found in various places. I feel like I took a lot away from it, but I guess I'll find out when my players hit my new dungeons. :lol:

But yeah, thanks for helping me out

(and sorry to everyone else for pushing this post up again, it felt ruder to leave my lack of reply...)

gamerprinter · Apr 12, 2018

I don't know of any articles, but as a freelance cartographer for the game industry, when doing personal maps for personal games I use my own intuition and standards as to what makes a good dungeon map. In a nutshell, I never create ubiquitous rooms and corridors, ever chamber I place has a specific purpose and never just a random room. The corridors placed are to most easily or deliberately placed in such a layout to access all the chambers in a way that makes sense. Here's an old map of mine, I did back in 2008, I think, just to state my design perspective to dungeon design I've had for a long time - not just a statement to post in a thread about it, now...

Lanefan · Apr 12, 2018

[MENTION=50895]gamerprinter[/MENTION] - at first glance that's a pretty-looking map but on second look the dungeon it's depicting is very linear. The only loop is provided by area 3, giving a bypass to the trap at area 2; unless I'm misreading and the gatehouse (area 4) is a second entrance to the dungeon. Either way, areas 5 and onward are a straight line other than one two-room dead-end offshoot (areas 10-11).

This is great if the design intent is to funnel the PCs through the encounters in a mostly-predictable order - tournament dungeons are almost always designed this way for just this reason - but for non-tournament use linear layouts like this aren't often much fun to play through as ultimately the only meaningful choice is to press on or turn back. That said, there's limits to how intricate you can make a 13-area dungeon.