D&D 5E "Warlord" Fighter sub-class from MMHFT podcast. Further duscussion.

Garthanos · Apr 11, 2018

Tony Vargas said:
Ok, maybe not that easily, everytime...

I get infuriated at the Clerics attempts and the rage building up allows me to dig deeper sending pain killing adrenaline and heroic vigor rises within me.

Tony Vargas · Apr 12, 2018

Garthanos said:
I reject all gods can the Cleric heal me?

I suppose he can, you just might not appreciate it...

LuisCarlos17f · Apr 12, 2018

My own version of the warlord is a martial adept with maneuvers from the school "White Raven" from "Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords", and adding the monster subtype "squad" for a humanoid group, or beast pack, fighting like a swarn, a single unit) and "morality points", something like a "protoss shield" from Starcraft. If the squad lose all morality points, a second pool of hit points, they don't lose levels of health but the squad is demoraliced. This allows warlord class powers or maneuvers to heal the "morality points" of their squads without using magic or postive energy.

Garthanos · Apr 12, 2018

Tony Vargas said:
I suppose he can, you just might not appreciate it...

Or he cannot as the gods refuse my character in return ... because a clerics abilities arent supposed to just be spells.

This kind of thing was actually discussed on the APAs like Alarums and Excursions back in the late 70s and 80s. Clerical miracles not feeling at all miraculous.

Tony Vargas · Apr 12, 2018

bkwrm79 said:
I know it's a first draft, but I hope if they move forward they manage to avoid:

1) implying the Warlord knows better than other party members how other party members can best use their abilities

This build is very INT-based and tactical, so it's going, by its nature, to imply that the Warlord has and passes on 'Tactical Insights' about the situation that will allow allies to make better use (specifically, in this case, +2d10 damage, to start) of their abilities than they might without that insight. Since the ally can use the insight either for healing or for that damage buff, it seems that he still 'knows best,' how to apply it to his own abilities.

2) "you and your allies howl in rage" (or any other "you and your allies do X" things)

That's an issue in 5e that it wasn't in 4e, where fluff was decoupled from mechanics and mutable (could be 're-skinned'), so they should watch out for getting too narrow or specific in the designs lest they create gambits that are un-suitable for many warlords and even anathema to some of their allies. You don't want pacifist clerics howling in rage or barbarians becoming calm & centered. ;P

3) "you order your allies..." "you direct your allies..."

So far Tactical Insights are very clearly voluntary - the ally decides whether & when to use them, and I believe the Gambits are as well. Did you notice any that weren't?

It's the kind of thing that's mainly about wording, rather than about concept or what the ability does mechanically. The original Commander's Strike, for instance, was phrased in a way that both made it incoherent under the explanation of how powers were read and seemingly non-optional on the part of the ally. The updated version removed both issues.

Hopefully they won't make that kind of mistake again.

Tony Vargas · Apr 14, 2018

Garthanos said:
Or he cannot as the gods refuse my character in return ... because a clerics abilities arentt supposed to just be spells.

This kind of thing was actually discussed on the APAs like Alarums and Excursions back in the late 70s and 80s. Clerical miracles not feeling at all miraculous.

Nod. In 5e the DM, as the arbiter of the world, would decide if the cleric's powers came direct & revocably from the god, in which case, he would, in the person of the deity, decide whether any give spell was granted and whether any give spell worked. OTOH, in 1e low-level spells came from the cleric, himself, and higher level ones were granted - IIRC, irrevocably, because they were indeed, just spells - by intermediaries, so a cleric could 'miss-use' spells, he just might not be granted more later. OTOOH, in 4e, a cleric received his power upon becoming a cleric, and it was his from then on, making him responsible for it's use or misuse (then again, in 4e Healing Word let you spend a surge, so if your character rejected the gods you could just choose not to).