D&D 4E [4e] just some feat ideas feedback request

MoutonRustique · Apr 24, 2018

Lingering Flame - hit with [fire], if you hit with [fire] again before the eont, target takes ongoing 5 [fire]

Energizing Lightning - deal +1d6 with [lightning], target hit gains 3 thp after attack
Variants: gains +2 to hit; gains +5 to damage; gains an extra move action, etc.

Desensitize to X - deal +1d6 with [X], after attack, target gains resist 5 [X]
*[X] is a specific damage type

*all numbers are just initial gut feelings, or simply placeholders

Just looking for impressions and feedback on these.

masteraleph · Apr 24, 2018

Lingering Flame- that's an awful lot of hitting you have to do (twice) in order to add a minimal amount of damage (compare to Lasting Frost, where the vulnerability pings with each damage instance, rather than once per turn). It might be vaguely useful with the Master of Flame paragon path due to the E11, but even then getting 2 hits before making that attack is tough.

Energizing Lightning- The target of the attack gains 3 thp? That doesn't seem like a great trade off to me- why bother, when the average is 3.5 damage anyways? Unless you're saying 3 thp for the user, in which case, that's pretty solid, but not all that much better than Lightning Soul. +2 to hit is powerful. An extra move action is hideously powerful.

Desensitize- Why on earth would you take that deal?

In 4e, the way to deal lots of damage is with multiple damage instances. All of these feats fail to take advantage of that, or give you a piddling amount of damage from the first attack in exchange for hurting all of the later ones. I'm not sure what makes any of those worthwhile.

Tony Vargas · Apr 24, 2018

MoutonRustique said:
Lingering Flame - hit with [fire], if you hit with [fire] again before the eont, target takes ongoing 5 [fire]

Seems OK, for a 4e feat, which isn't saying much. Fiddly, doesn't actually have too much impact, but flavorful.

Energizing Lightning - deal +1d6 with [lightning], target hit gains 3 thp after attack
Variants: gains +2 to hit; gains +5 to damage; gains an extra move action, etc.

Desensitize to X - deal +1d6 with [X], after attack, target gains resist 5 [X]
*[X] is a specific damage type

What's the point of these two, exactly?

MoutonRustique · Apr 24, 2018

masteraleph said:
Lingering Flame- that's an awful lot of hitting you have to do (twice) in order to add a minimal amount of damage (compare to Lasting Frost, where the vulnerability pings with each damage instance, rather than once per turn). It might be vaguely useful with the Master of Flame paragon path due to the E11, but even then getting 2 hits before making that attack is tough.

Tony Vargas said:
Seems OK, for a 4e feat, which isn't saying much. Fiddly, doesn't actually have too much impact, but flavorful.

I was looking at Astral Fire as a comparison. I am surprised by how weak you guys think it is, but I'm glad it isn't on the "break the game" scale.

Energizing Lightning- The target of the attack gains 3 thp? That doesn't seem like a great trade off to me- why bother, when the average is 3.5 damage anyways? Unless you're saying 3 thp for the user, in which case, that's pretty solid, but not all that much better than Lightning Soul. +2 to hit is powerful. An extra move action is hideously powerful.

All these bonuses are for the enemy. The idea is to gain a significant damage boost, but offering a trade-off - but since the "penalty" is back-loaded, in effect, you gain the benefit one extra time per enemy you engage with per combat.

As to the thp, would 2 be more appropriate?

Desensitize- Why on earth would you take that deal?

What's the point of these two, exactly?

The idea is to encourage attack rotation and allowing for non-specialists to play in the same ballpark. But I just realized it doesn't do want I initially wrote it to mean! Yeah, this version only works if you take 2+ of them...

More logical version : [choose X and Y, when you deal X or Y damage, deal +1d6 extra damage. After the attack, the target gains resist 5 X or Y, respectively]

In 4e, the way to deal lots of damage is with multiple damage instances. All of these feats fail to take advantage of that, or give you a piddling amount of damage from the first attack in exchange for hurting all of the later ones. I'm not sure what makes any of those worthwhile.

That's actually great to hear! I'm trying to bend the game into an approach that doesn't rely on "mutli-tap". I'm also very happy to see that I erred on the side of "weak".

Another goal I have is encourage and create more options that are stronger once combat is under full swing (an associated goal is to discourage nova-strikes in early rounds as much as possible on the system front - which falls under the previous umbrella.)

Thank you very much for your input.

Tony Vargas · Apr 25, 2018

MoutonRustique said:
I was looking at Astral Fire as a comparison. I am surprised by how weak you guys think it is, but I'm glad it isn't on the "break the game" scale.

Astral Fire and the like are also regarded as 'weak' - they shouldn't be, IMHO, but subsequent feat development rendered a lot of otherwise reasonable feats sub-optimal.

The idea is to encourage attack rotation and allowing for non-specialists to play in the same ballpark. But I just realized it doesn't do want I initially wrote it to mean
That's actually great to hear! I'm trying to bend the game into an approach that doesn't rely on "mutli-tap". I'm also very happy to see that I erred on the side of "weak".
Another goal I have is encourage and create more options that are stronger once combat is under full swing (an associated goal is to discourage nova-strikes in early rounds as much as possible on the system front - which falls under the previous umbrella.)

OK, I see the idea, I do like the idea of encouraging variation, but you might do it in an entirely bonus-oriented way.

Like, IDK:

Fire & Ice: When you hit an enemy with an attack that has the fire keyword, it gains vulnerable 5 cold, when you hit an enemy with a power that has the cold keyword, it gains vulnerable 5 fire. If you use a power that has both keywords, you instead gain a feat bonus to damage of +1/Tier. The vulnerability lasts until the enemy has taken extra damage from it, once.

Life & Death: As above, but Radiant & Necrotic.

MoutonRustique · Apr 25, 2018

Tony Vargas said:
Astral Fire and the like are also regarded as 'weak' - they shouldn't be, IMHO, but subsequent feat development rendered a lot of otherwise reasonable feats sub-optimal.

OK, I see the idea, I do like the idea of encouraging variation, but you might do it in an entirely bonus-oriented way.

Like, IDK:

Fire & Ice: When you hit an enemy with an attack that has the fire keyword, it gains vulnerable 5 cold, when you hit an enemy with a power that has the cold keyword, it vulnerable 5 fire. If you use a power that has both keywords, you instead gain a feat bonus to damage of +1/Tier. The vulnerability lasts until the enemy has taken extra damage from it, once.

Life & Death: As above, but Radiant & Necrotic.

I can definitely see my way to something like that.

For martial types, to encourage multi-targeting :
Plenty to go Around - if you hit two or more targets this turn, you can deal 1[W] damage to an enemy within reach you have not attacked this turn as a free action. You cannot deal this damage more than once per turn.

Not Just for Chargers... - you deal 1d4 extra damage when you hit an enemy whom you were not adjacent to at the start of your turn.*
*I'm not trying to make [charge] even better... but I was trying to make a "skirmish" feat and this is the first one that made any kind of sense to me. Also, I'm sure there's a better phrasing for this.

Garthanos · Apr 25, 2018

MoutonRustique said:
The idea is to encourage attack rotation and allowing for non-specialists to play in the same ballpark.

I approve the goal

Tony Vargas · Apr 25, 2018

Dammit, I had a bunch more and the forum ate 'em...

Tony Vargas · Apr 25, 2018

MoutonRustique said:
I can definitely see my way to something like that.

For martial types, to encourage multi-targeting :
Plenty to go Around - if you hit two or more targets this turn, you can deal 1[W] damage to an enemy within reach you have not attacked this turn as a free action. You cannot deal this damage more than once per turn.

I like that.

Not Just for Chargers... - you deal 1d4 extra damage when you hit an enemy whom you were not adjacent to at the start of your turn.*
*I'm not trying to make [charge] even better... but I was trying to make a "skirmish" feat and this is the first one that made any kind of sense to me. Also, I'm sure there's a better phrasing for this.

Probing Advance: When you use your move action to shift or move less than your normal speed on your turn, your melee attacks that turn inflict +1d4 extra damage the first time you hit an enemy you were not adjacent to before you moved, but were adjacent to after the move.

Garthanos · Apr 25, 2018

I have been complaining that the game over rewards specialization for some time... only ever using 1 at-will... wonder if we could configure encouragement for that versatility.