help me build a future Mystic Theurge

green slime said:

Well, those requirement feats are going to hurt... the MT gaining no bonus feats, so you are going to have to plan well in advance.

That is three feats "down the drain" (Skill Focus, 2x Spell Focus).
Given Spellcasting Prodigy x2 at first level, you only get two other feat choices, prior to taking Archmage. What would they be? Craft Wonderous Item is always good, almost too good to pass up. And then I would be tempted to go Extend spell, to keep those buffs going a little longer, or another Item Creation feat.

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Yes...that's very true. The wated feats and the fact that turn undead wouldn't improve would lick. But I'm not talking about a min/maxed character here.

And my DM (and myself when I DM) always allow feat substitution for at least the skill focus. That's a completely wasted feat and I don't feel the need for characters to have to waste 'em. I think Spell Focus X2 or Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus...along with another feat...would be just fine.

Good points all around - some thoughts on wizard spells, though.

Magic missile and ray of enfeeblement are must-have at 1st level - no saves, always useful. Your caster stat will always be lower than a single caster, so saves will be a little tougher on you, so I'd focus on no-save spells. Necromancy and conjuration have good choices. I wouldn't take many divination spells, use your cleric spells for that.

Imbue w/ spell ability is really good for the MT - you can spread out some of those slots you otherwise wouldn't use.

Do whatever it takes to qualify for archmage - you've got spell slots to spare, you won't even miss a 5th level spell here or there. Esp. if your DM will let you swap out divine 5th level spells (the text just requires a 5th level spell) to get the arcane bonuses.

In an attempt to be helpful and engender consistency...

Shouldn't this thread be moved to the "D&D Rules" forum? I believe I've seen Piratecat mention elsewhere that "cool character development questions" fall under that category.

Currently playing a drood1/Wiz1 the idea being to get to drood 3/wiz3 and go theurge, Ill let you know how it goes, but its fun having as many spells as the rest of the party put together
Droods also give up less that clerics in the theurgy route.. they give up less armor, and sacrifice wild shapes rather than turning power (polymorph spell gives them back too )

Why do people always assume cleric ?

Ehm. Just another small proposal... Check out the Spellsinger class in the Kalamar PG. It's essentially a sorcerer with no somatic components and wizards spells per day (you'll get 2nd level spells as fast as a wiz).

Silence spells will screw your spellcasting in at least one class... but Heavy Armour, baby!

Go Grey elf (+2 Int, +2 Cha, -2 Con).
Your stats would look like this: 15, 10, 14, 13, 17, 19. (if you wanna go melee)
Easy to build an archer cleric though.

Definitely start with cleric2....

Druid/spellsinger would be nice too , but more stylish than effective. (Lotsa firepower for several rounds).

But I don't think druids are nice for MT since they loose their big strength: wildshape. (At least for many levels)

Funny I'm just starting a Mystic Theurge myself.

People choose cleric because druids mystic Theurges loose a lot more. Look at the cleric advancement table. After turn undead at 1st level they don't get anything else. Druids loose a lot of bad-ass shapechanging and other powers and have all those weapon and armor penalties. (Admittedly not such a big deal if you're planning on focusing on arcane magic in battle but still a pain in the butt....).

Other people have said it as well but:
Start cleric, stay cleric until 3 then shift to wizard. It's just a much better class at lower levels. When you shift to "unarmored combatant" mode you'll have cleric buffs, healing and hitpoints to help you survive those levels when you can only cast magic missile. Or you can use your arcane spells as longer term buffs and divinations initially and put on your armor when you head down to the dungeon.

Stats: You have good stats. People who thing you need 18s to play a particular class need to get out of 2nd edition land. Focus on Int and Wis of course. Cha is good for extra turns, which might be useful if you have the right feats.

Feats: Your turning attempts will be useless after the first few levels, but there are lots of feats out there that let you use your turns for other things. In particular think about divine vigor (from DotF). The speed boost and the hit point boost are pretty sweet. I think there are more divine feats in the S&S players guide too. There's one in R&R2 which lets you maximize your healing spells (as I recall) also very useful if you're giving up more powerful healing spells.

Other feats should all be magic related (because they apply to all your spells) and should be dictated by your world. If it's a low magic world think about item creation. High magic with lots of creatures with SR and NPCs with magic items might benefit from Spell Focus (a higher DC is still a higher DC) and Spell Penetration.

Especially since you're going to have more spells to prep going into combat Metamagic feats like extend spell might be good. If you'll be summoning then Augment Summoning might be a great idea. I wouldn't waste a feat on things like Improved Initiative, you'll get a much bigger payoff from magic item creation feats in the long run.

Additional prestige classes-I- wouldn't aim for a prestige class that's going to start at 16th level when the game is just beginning. It's too far away and there is a reasonable likelihood you won't ever get there, because most games end at high levels. I recently worked a character up toward a prestige class (starting at 8th character level) only to have the game end at 7th. It can be frustrating forgoing better choices to get something you won't be able to enjoy. At the very least put off aquisition of feats until you absolutely have to take them.
Of course the Archmage is absurdly powerful, much better than it's divine counterpart so I can see the attraction