D&D 5E PbP games: what works and what doesn't?

FitzTheRuke · May 20, 2018

Let's use another one of my games for example:

In "Fitz's Folly" we started with the Adventurer's League Intros for Tomb of Annihilation. We did TWO (of Five) of the short adventures that AL expects to take 1-2 hours, and now we are on our way to one (of many possible) side-quests. We started at the end of August.

Now, I've tried to let it "breathe" a bit and haven't rushed it at all, but I've run very similar sessions (some of them inspired by what we did here) IRL, and I estimate that I could (and probably have) done the same stuff in about four two-hour sessions.

So, yeah... that's still a month for an hour.

KirayaTiDrekan · May 20, 2018

If I may offer the perspective of a failed GM...

When I first started GMing PbP (as crazy_monkey1956) I had one game, Tragedy at Silvergard, that successfully made it to the end thanks to a combination of a clear end goal (find the abandoned mining town and discover what happened to it) and excellent players. It took us about three years to play from level 1 to 3 in D&D 3.5 if I remember correctly.

After that, both as crazy_monkey1956 and my current account (previously known as MasqueradingVampire) I tried doing what EarlyBird is doing and running a lot of games all at once. And they all failed. One of the biggest issues was not having a clear end-goal in mind. My campaign ideas were too open ended and often too vague as well. I also vastly underestimated the amount of time PbP takes and ended up getting impatient.

All that said, I never just vanished. I always informed the players when I burned out and closed the game.

I think, if I stuck to what made Tragedy at Silvergard work (and got lucky with getting good players), I could give it another go.

FitzTheRuke · May 20, 2018

I called my game "Fitz's Folly" because it was my third (fourth if you count that there were two groups in Vault of the Dracolich at the time) game DMing, and I thought it might be too much for me.

Turns out, it very nearly was, as my other games slowed down quite a bit because of it (and because of players, though it's always hard to tell if they slow down when the game does, or because of life getting in the way - obviously it can be both or either reason).

At any rate, I should probably stick to two when Vault wraps. (Though I do have ideas for a sequel...)

jmucchiello · May 20, 2018

EB is running all the hard cover adventures (and some older games). So he has a goal for all of those games he's running.

Ancalagon · May 20, 2018

FitzTheRuke said:
Let's use another one of my games for example:

In "Fitz's Folly" we started with the Adventurer's League Intros for Tomb of Annihilation. We did TWO (of Five) of the short adventures that AL expects to take 1-2 hours, and now we are on our way to one (of many possible) side-quests. We started at the end of August.

Now, I've tried to let it "breathe" a bit and haven't rushed it at all, but I've run very similar sessions (some of them inspired by what we did here) IRL, and I estimate that I could (and probably have) done the same stuff in about four two-hour sessions.

So, yeah... that's still a month for an hour.

This, with your previous post, is what worries me. Can we realistically finish that game?

FitzTheRuke · May 21, 2018

It depends. One of the reasons that I switched from the AL adventures to the 'real' adventure (aside from that I didn't find them nearly as compelling) is that you players made characters that really wanted to pursue the main story's hook (that of solving the Death Curse). This is something that the AL adventure just doesn't have anything to do with.

So... if we were to do the whole adventure, then... no. No, we wouldn't finish ever. On the other hand, there's always a lot of "filler" in the big adventures - stuff that's there to get you the levels required to move on to the next story beat.

For a long while, IRL, I've not counted XP, I've just levelled characters when I feel like it's been long enough (or at appropriately successful-feeling story points). Milestones, as they now call it. These milestones happen slower in PBP (in that it takes months to get to them) but actually quicker than XP would ever EVER allow. I mean, you do one or two encounters before I level you up.

In Vault of the Dracolich, you went from level 4 to level 7 in TWO days! (In-game time!). It was, IIRC, three long rests - each time you levelled up. I allowed it because it "felt" like it was TIME to level you up. You'd paid your dues.

So... that said, with levelling-by-gut rather than by XP, or even quite proper Milestones (for example, in Scourge of Daggerford, I had planned to give them their next level after they finished dealing with the threat to the Town of Julkoun (long story)... but they've only just ARRIVED at the town after a long travel story (that would only have taken an hour or two IRL) and it FEELS like it's time for a level. So I'll probably level them for getting there and probably AGAIN when they finish it.

So, to answer you more quickly, I think this problem can be solved by making the stories shorter and the levels faster. Really, every one of the HC Adventures has a LOT of filler. It's generally GOOD filler, and you can run the filler as a fun little game in itself, but if you want to follow the "big" story in the adventure, in PBP, you're gonna have to do mostly ONLY that.

I dunno if "Fitz's Folly" will get to its finish, but my plan (so far) is to do some compelling "here's Chult" stuff (you already did Port Nyanzaru, now on Jungle) and then head for the end-game when it seems like it's time.

jmucchiello · May 21, 2018

Slow leveling should just be assumed in PbP. I admit it was annoying the first time it took 6 months to get to level 2 but now it feels normal.

JustinCase · May 21, 2018

Good points, all. I like the One Shot concept for this reason; a fairly short and focused game with a clear end goal within reach.

On the other hand, some games surprise you. I’m still playing one of my first games here, and although the pacing is, well, glacial due to personal circumstances of the DM and some players, the game and the characters are interesting enough to keep going. I’ve been playing it for years, and it originally started years before that!

But that seems to be a noticable exception.

EarlyBird · May 21, 2018

jmucchiello said:
EB is running all the hard cover adventures (and some older games). So he has a goal for all of those games he's running.

The main goal - is to have fun. Which I am - hope my players are as well. I find that my time at home with my books all laid out and I'm looking up monster stats, making combat maps, or reading sub-plots/NPC goals I am having loads of fun.

I am on pins and needles waiting for my groups to encounter some of what is to come. So sometimes I rush it (been so hard to play it cool with Searinox's familiar, but I am hanging in), and I hope that doesn;t ruin their fun.

But this thread seems to be about finding what works in pbp, and I still have no ideal, but make sure you are having fun, and if not let your DM/GM know and see if things can't be worked out from there.

Ancalagon · May 26, 2018

FitzTheRuke said:
For a long while, IRL, I've not counted XP, I've just levelled characters when I feel like it's been long enough (or at appropriately successful-feeling story points). Milestones, as they now call it. These milestones happen slower in PBP (in that it takes months to get to them) but actually quicker than XP would ever EVER allow. I mean, you do one or two encounters before I level you up.

In Vault of the Dracolich, you went from level 4 to level 7 in TWO days! (In-game time!). It was, IIRC, three long rests - each time you levelled up. I allowed it because it "felt" like it was TIME to level you up. You'd paid your dues.

So... that said, with levelling-by-gut rather than by XP, or even quite proper Milestones (for example, in Scourge of Daggerford, I had planned to give them their next level after they finished dealing with the threat to the Town of Julkoun (long story)... but they've only just ARRIVED at the town after a long travel story (that would only have taken an hour or two IRL) and it FEELS like it's time for a level. So I'll probably level them for getting there and probably AGAIN when they finish it.

What I find interesting is that the rise in level of PCs in the Dracolich game has almost exactly matched the rise in level of the NPC I plucked to use as a character in your game (I needed to stat out Udit for my game, and well then it was pretty easy to import him to your game). It was very useful to me (and the game was great too!) - but Udit started at level 4 in both our games, and they are now level 7 in both our games too - so the IRL, 1 session/2 weeks has kept the same level pace as the PBP game.