Darkvision: Don't forget the Disadvantage & limitations!

CapnZapp · May 22, 2018

Ilbranteloth said:
snip

Okay, so now that all your efforts to discredit, question and invalidate my suggestion have boiled down to "don't like it; rather use other houserules", maybe if there is nothing further, you can let me present my contribution without further interference. Thank you.

CapnZapp · May 22, 2018

To any newcomer of the thread:

One great idea is to treat your forgetfulness as an opportunity to get rid of a few ill-advised changes 5th edition made.

If you reintroduce low-light vision to the game, lots of issues resolve themselves almost as if my magic!

Not only can you remove the disadvantage to Perception you keep forgetting about, but you can also reduce the number of PHB races with Darkvision by three: give Elf, Half-Elf and Gnome low-light vision instead of darkvision.

This reduces the tendency of city slicker DMs to have underdark races carry light in patrols (a big nono). It also allows forest animals to hunt prey at larger distances than 20 meters.

The best thing about this houserule suggestion is that it's proven to be functional and easy to use!

(Indeed, D&D itself used it for a whole decade. Eager to reduce conditions and states, unfortunately 5E removed it without thinking it through. Good news is - it's very easy to rollback the changes.)

Anyway, just a suggestion

Cheers!

Ilbranteloth · May 22, 2018

CapnZapp said:
Okay, so now that all your efforts to discredit, question and invalidate my suggestion have boiled down to "don't like it; rather use other houserules", maybe if there is nothing further, you can let me present my contribution without further interference. Thank you.

Huh? I have no intention, nor have I attempted to discredit anything you'd suggested. I simply stated that I didn't care for what you were proposing, and why.

Furthermore, my objections are to the design of the 3e rules for vision - it's not your houserule. It was the published RAW for 3e through 4e. The only objection I have to what you propose is to reintroduce a rule I didn't like in the first place.

I obviously didn't do a very good job at explaining what I don't like, because based on what you've stated in further examples you aren't understanding my issues. I'm OK with that, because I certainly don't think you'd be intentionally trying to troll me or bait me, and I don't think you're stupid either. My failure to explain myself lies squarely on my shoulders. Oh, and my consideration of what you and others have said here is also what led me to another houserule option that I hadn't thought about.

In the end, it's not really relevant whether you understand why I don't like it, and you certainly don't have to agree with it. I realized that I was spending a lot of time trying to find a different way to explain my thoughts, when it's really irrelevant because we aren't going to agree on what each of us thinks is a solution. Again, there's no problem with that, that's the beauty of the game. It can work with all sorts of different types of players, with different perspectives and ideas.

Regardless, I wish you well. You've repeated your suggestion multiple times in the thread, and I see you've posted it again. In fact, I will help ensure that it is not lost since I replied to you, and to avoid causing further interference I will post it here too. I'm certainly not here to get in your (or anybody else's) way in presenting their ideas for the game.

For everybody else, here's [MENTION=12731]CapnZapp[/MENTION]'s well-tested solution (2 full editions plus Pathfinder) for all of your darkvision woes! Enjoy!

CapnZapp said:
To any newcomer of the thread:

One great idea is to treat your forgetfulness as an opportunity to get rid of a few ill-advised changes 5th edition made.

If you reintroduce low-light vision to the game, lots of issues resolve themselves almost as if my magic!

Not only can you remove the disadvantage to Perception you keep forgetting about, but you can also reduce the number of PHB races with Darkvision by three: give Elf, Half-Elf and Gnome low-light vision instead of darkvision.

This reduces the tendency of city slicker DMs to have underdark races carry light in patrols (a big nono). It also allows forest animals to hunt prey at larger distances than 20 meters.

The best thing about this houserule suggestion is that it's proven to be functional and easy to use!

(Indeed, D&D itself used it for a whole decade. Eager to reduce conditions and states, unfortunately 5E removed it without thinking it through. Good news is - it's very easy to rollback the changes.)

Anyway, just a suggestion

Cheers!

nexalis · May 23, 2018

Take a second look at the Skulker feat as well. I've always been puzzled as to why this feat seems to get so little love in the community. After reading this thread, I now realize its because people are ignoring the darkness = dim light aspect of the darkvision rules.

Skulker becomes a lot more attractive for characters who plan to operate in the dark once you realize that:

it lets you hide in plain sight from anyone who is relying exclusively on darkvision, and
it lets you scout around without a light source sans disadvantage on visual Perception rolls (because no good sneak wants to signal his or her presence by carrying around a light source!)

Darkvision: Don't forget the Disadvantage & limitations!

CapnZapp

Legend

CapnZapp

Legend

Ilbranteloth

Explorer

nexalis

Numinous Hierophant

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