Format of Books, Ease of use?

Warpiglet · May 22, 2018

Hello all,

I have really enjoyed 5e and was again DM for a big set piece adventure. I just started thinking as I found some material long forgotten...

The new format of the books finds a wide audience. Each of the books past the core 3 have things for players and DMs alike. Just curious though about how they are used in practice.

I am very happy with the content, but admit that spread of the info is a little daunting. I may endeavor to make notes on interesting bits or where to find things in the future.

Any other DMs/player find the layout or structure a bit scattered? Thanks for any input. Still a fan, have next book on order, just observed demons and devils may be spread out over many books when all is said and done...

KenNYC · May 22, 2018

One thing I wish is the players handbook listed the spells like the 1e version did: by class, then level, then A-Z. It's next to impossible to scan the spells when choosing

jgsugden · May 22, 2018

I wish they'd go to a different model: Lore versus crunch.

Lore doesn't need to be released over and over and over, edition after edition after edition. Why not have edition agnostic lore books that you can use in any edition of the game? Heck, why not have these just be online resources?

Then, supplement those books with crunch that includes game mechanics, monsters, classes, races, feats, magic items, spells.

I just get tired of forcing the lore to leap 50 years ahead to adjust for changing game mechanics...

MonkeezOnFire · May 23, 2018

I like that each new book contains a variety of content from lore, to monster stats to PC options. Within each book the organization I find to be quite good. I can always find what I need in Volo's after a few quick flips.

But I agree that with each new book it gets clumsy to use my physical copies for prep. This is where digital tools are great. It's been a while since I poked around there but I believe they intend D&D Beyond to be their digital archive of all the content they release. With a cursory glance it looks like they have the monsters in a searchable format.

Warpiglet · May 23, 2018

MonkeezOnFire said:
I like that each new book contains a variety of content from lore, to monster stats to PC options. Within each book the organization I find to be quite good. I can always find what I need in Volo's after a few quick flips.

But I agree that with each new book it gets clumsy to use my physical copies for prep. This is where digital tools are great. It's been a while since I poked around there but I believe they intend D&D Beyond to be their digital archive of all the content they release. With a cursory glance it looks like they have the monsters in a searchable format.

I think you just gave me an idea.

Would WOTC be able to give a free pdfndex of subjects for all published material? I think that might be a solution.

For example, I recently had Hobgoblins figure prominently in the game. The index could direct me both to Volo's guide as well as Monster Manual with page numbers and subjects under hobgoblin.

If they keep putting out books with slightly schizophrenic organization (btw I am a huge fan of 5e, so take that in context), I believe they would do fans a service and be able to keep doing what they are doing.

That is a straightforward example. But when and if another book has goblinoids, referencing three books for one topic starts to seem a little much without help. I realize they can do this for digital products but now am thinking they could do this for print items as well.

delericho · May 23, 2018

Personally, I'd quite like an "encyclopedia version", where all the material is arranged by topic, regardless of source - so all the spells would be in single volume, rather than spread between the PHB, XGtE, etc. Though 5e doesn't really have enough material for such a thing... at least, not yet.

Of course, such a product would definitely be of niche appeal, would immediately lose value when the next product was released, and is better done online. But other than that...

Swarmkeeper · May 23, 2018

KenNYC said:
One thing I wish is the players handbook listed the spells like the 1e version did: by class, then level, then A-Z. It's next to impossible to scan the spells when choosing

Here's where I go for slicing and dicing spell lists:
www.dnd-spells.com

guachi · May 25, 2018

I dislike the scattershot approach. It'd be fine if there were more focus each book. A supplement on a specific region, like old Gazetteers, is fine if it has bits of this and bits of that because all the bits were about the same thing. The Known World Gazetteers, for instance, eventually had two separate booklets - one for DMs and one for players.

Scattered books might be fine when there are no more than, say, three books. But now we have too many. I also find the content lacking. Or, rather, the content is fine but when it's all jumbled and piled together like a yearly "Best of Dragon Magazine" it makes the whole less than the sum of the parts.

I'd love one book to compile all post-PHB character stuff and one book to compile all post-MM monsters. And then maybe a book to compile all the DM-related items, like the back half of Everything.

And don't get me started on the formatting of the adventures. I hate it so much I find them useless. Even if Tomb of Annihilation was fun to *play* I'd be driven mad trying to run it. No thank you.

Blue · May 25, 2018

jgsugden said:
I wish they'd go to a different model: Lore versus crunch.

Lore doesn't need to be released over and over and over, edition after edition after edition. Why not have edition agnostic lore books that you can use in any edition of the game? Heck, why not have these just be online resources?

Then, supplement those books with crunch that includes game mechanics, monsters, classes, races, feats, magic items, spells.

I just get tired of forcing the lore to leap 50 years ahead to adjust for changing game mechanics...

Your last sentence catches why they can't do this.

The mechanics need to support the setting. And to a lesser degree, the setting needs to support the mechanics.

For example, straight D&D 5e doesn't strongly support a Middle Earth type setting, because of the high levels of magic and such. You'd want to either adjust the rules (like has been done in 3rd party suppliments for ME) or adjust the setting to jive with the rules.

What this means is that when there are significant changes to how the mechanics work, they need to update the setting to be in sync. And since lore is often linked to setting, those can need to be adjusted as well.

(Mind you, I'm not saying that it's not also word count to fill up books. The random name tables in XGtE are another example. Just that there is a reason to update setting with major changes in mechanics.)

Winterthorn · May 25, 2018

I will be a bit grumpy for a moment: I was fine with everything until ToF. Now it is time for WotC to apply some serious focus. So far all they've done is rehash their IP and bring it up to date with the new edition. The mixed lore and crunch approach was a gamble, and as a business decision it was a smart way to engage fans - but I wager people will soon get tired of this. How about focussed material now, please?

I feel perhaps it is time for WotC to publish something *new* in terms of a setting, updating one that hasn't been touched in decades, or introducing a whole new one. Even plug-in subsettings could be interesting; something of modest size like an individual kingdom or dominion, with lore and setting specific crunch, where each kingdom/dominion can be cobbled together with other subsettings, or plopped into our homebrew campaigns with minimal tweaking. Peoples' mileage may very but gazetteers would be most interesting to me now.

PS: TSR/WotC used the gazeteer technique with great success in quality of product with Known World/Mystara, and with Birthright.

Format of Books, Ease of use?

Warpiglet

Adventurer

KenNYC

Explorer

jgsugden

Legend

MonkeezOnFire

Adventurer

Warpiglet

Adventurer

delericho

Legend

Swarmkeeper

Hero

guachi

Hero

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Winterthorn

Monster Manager

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