The stone wall: a pure tank build (AC 27+) - Page 3
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grue AC View Post
    War Mage works better than Blade Singer. +4 to a saving throw once a round covers your NADs.
    Except that hurts more than it helps. Because the goal isn't just to be well defending, it's also to defend the others in the party. This is done two ways - sentinel and cavalier marking.

    Cavalier's Unwavering Mark has two aspects. The STR times per had doing extra damage isn't for this low-STR build, so the foes marked having disadvantage is the big part. And that only works within 5 feet of you.

    So, you need your reaction to use Sentinel to keep a foe close to keep the marking going. Because leaving adjacent will trigger an OA, and sentinel will reduce speed to zero so you stay adjacent.

    Taking away reaction really nullifies the defender half the build, in both the sentinel feat and the cavalier for marking (which is multiplied in effectiveness by sentinel).

  2. #22
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    Dec 2014
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    I would counter that since you only have 1 reaction you are only holding 1 baddie at bay. Therefore your greatest method of restraint is to be within 5 feet, providing disadvantage forcing the baddies to attack you. if they are attacking you they are not attacking your friends. if they are attacking you you can defend yourself better. Additionally since this proposed build is utilizing forge cleric rather than paladin your saves are your weakest point. the +4 to a failed save will be much more useful than a single sentinel hit. Ie Mage who is nowhere near you casts Heat-metal on your nifty plate armor, or hold person you fail the save. well you are now basically out of the entire fight. or you pop a reaction +4 to save and you can keep working on keeping the troll away from your friends.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chryssis View Post
    I would counter that since you only have 1 reaction you are only holding 1 baddie at bay. Therefore your greatest method of restraint is to be within 5 feet, providing disadvantage forcing the baddies to attack you. if they are attacking you they are not attacking your friends. if they are attacking you you can defend yourself better. Additionally since this proposed build is utilizing forge cleric rather than paladin your saves are your weakest point. the +4 to a failed save will be much more useful than a single sentinel hit. Ie Mage who is nowhere near you casts Heat-metal on your nifty plate armor, or hold person you fail the save. well you are now basically out of the entire fight. or you pop a reaction +4 to save and you can keep working on keeping the troll away from your friends.
    Your statement - resisting a save-or-suck spell you would otherwise fail vs. a single round of keeping a foe close - is generally true. But the frequency of them coming up makes a big difference in utility.

    I'll say that being very hard to hit, most foes will not want to concentrate on you. Getting up to one and marking them (soft forcing them to concentrate on you if they stay adjacent) is an every round occurrence. Especially when you closed with ranged combatants (like a caster).

    Now, let's look at how often do you fail a save-or-suck spell by 4 or less? First, how many combats are against casters? 1 in 3? How many save-or-suck spells do they have? 1-2 per combat? Of the three big saves, CON you have proficiency in plus a high CON, you're not worried about those. DEX does damage, you've got plenty of HPs - they aren't save or suck. So it's just WIS spells. Chance it's a WIS spell or one of the minor saves? Let's reduce it from 1-2 per combat to 1 per combat. What's the chance that they decide to cast it and to target you with it? 50%? So you'll make, some you'll fail even with +4. The chance the +4 will help you is 20%. So, 1/3 of combats will have a caster with 1 appropriate-save-targeting save-or-suck spell, will use it AND target you 50% of the time and you will fail your save by 1-4 points 20% of the time.

    That works out to be that +4 helps you 1 combat every 30 combats. Vs. the reaction for Sentinel being useful once a round, every round. If you're going to take wizard levels might as well, but that requires INT 13 which drops other ability scores. I don't see it as hugely useful.

    But looking at it like this does make me less worried about the number of reactions it will take up.

  4. #24
    Yeah I'm not saying go out of your way to be a Wizard. It's the better option though if you do go that route.

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