D&D 5E [5e] Paladin Build help

Drasek · May 31, 2018

I would like some help with my Pally.
This is my first 5e character (played mainly 2-3-3.5 and PF) so I'm not sure if I'm doing a good job.

Race: Human (Variant) Level: 1

Stats
STR 16 +1 from Variant 17
DEX 12
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 15 +1 from Variant 16

1st level feat -> Heavy armor master, STR 18 now and the other benefits.
I will take Oath of Vengeance
And as I decided to become and sword and board my thought at 4th level was to take Shield Master.

However I just saw that the prior ruling for Shield Master and the bonus action was overruled:
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/994993596989300736

So, first of all, is my build decent?
And then is it worth any more to take this feat? The shoving action becomes kind of a joke (unless you have other fighters benefiting).
If not what would you suggest for 4th level?

Gavin O. · May 31, 2018

First of all, you can't get 17 Strength at level 1 without rolling stats. The maximum you can get with point-buy is 15, and variant human gives +1. I'm not sure if you rolled stats or not.

If you don't plan to Multiclass and you plan to use a Sword and Shield, it's actually more useful to raise your Dexterity instead of your Strength and use a Rapier to attack. Compared to Strength, you get extra Initiative, better skills, a better saving throw, the ability to use a longbow, and much better AC in the event you lose your armor somehow, at the cost of not being able to use two-handed weapons.

Heavy Armor Master is a great feat at level one, I'd recommend spending your level 4 ASI on +2 to your attacking stat (Strength or Dex). Paladins are starved for ASI because they have two primary stats, and getting +1 to hit and to damage is worth more than most feats.

Drasek · May 31, 2018

Gavin O. said:
First of all, you can't get 17 Strength at level 1 without rolling stats. The maximum you can get with point-buy is 15, and variant human gives +1. I'm not sure if you rolled stats or not.

If you don't plan to Multiclass and you plan to use a Sword and Shield, it's actually more useful to raise your Dexterity instead of your Strength and use a Rapier to attack. Compared to Strength, you get extra Initiative, better skills, a better saving throw, the ability to use a longbow, and much better AC in the event you lose your armor somehow, at the cost of not being able to use two-handed weapons.

Heavy Armor Master is a great feat at level one, I'd recommend spending your level 4 ASI on +2 to your attacking stat (Strength or Dex). Paladins are starved for ASI because they have two primary stats, and getting +1 to hit and to damage is worth more than most feats.

The stats were rolled, we don't use point-buy.
The finesse thing doesn't suit me in terms of role-playing. I'll pick an oath of vengeance and I don't feel the rapier would be suitable. It's not a mechanics thing, it's fluff.

As I said, I've never played 5e. Is getting the main stat to 20 the usual way to go?
Even for a sword and board paladin?

Gavin O. · May 31, 2018

Drasek said:
The stats were rolled, we don't use point-buy.
The finesse thing doesn't suit me in terms of role-playing. I'll pick an oath of vengeance and I don't feel the rapier would be suitable. It's not a mechanics thing, it's fluff.

As I said, I've never played 5e. Is getting the main stat to 20 the usual way to go?
Even for a sword and board paladin?

Getting your primary stat to 20 ASAP is usually the way to go. +1 to hit and to damage is better than the effects of most feats. Paladins get an ability at level 6 that allows them to add their Charisma modifier to all saving throws for them and allies within 10 feet (improves to 30 feet at level 18), which in conjunction with it being your spellcasting modifier means you probably want to get your CHA to 20 as well. At maximum, a Paladin gets 5 ASI, and doesn't get their last one until level 19. I'd say spend your first three ASI on +2 Strength, +2 Cha, and +2 Cha to get both those stats to 20. After that you have options:

Resilient(Con) is always worth looking at for a Melee spellcaster, since Constitution saving throws are quite common and govern some devastating effects, plus it will help you maintain your concentration.
Alert and Lucky are both generically good options that fit on any build.
Sentinel is another good option to prevent enemies from moving freely and to get a free attack against a creature that attacks your ally.

Vymair · May 31, 2018

It's a fine build. Getting to 20 is considered the optimal play by most people but I personally find feats to be more fun. I'd consider Sentinel since it's just fun and also has the benefit of keeping the attacks on you with your high AC, damage reduction (due to Heavy Armor Mastery).

CTurbo · May 31, 2018

First of all I like your build. Heavy Armor Master is a great level 1 feat for a Paladin. I would probably stay a Str Pally too despite Dex being superior to Str in most ways.

Maxing your attack stat is always a great idea, but it is a little boring if you know what I mean. If you didn't do it at lvl 4, you'd definitely want to do it at lvl 8 for sure. Having a 20 Charisma is awesome too, but it's not as critical. You could leave it at 18 and still be great if you wanted. The biggest potential issue I'm seeing is a 12 Con which I would not be happy with on a Paladin. I think the Tough feat is mandatory here. It's essentially the same as putting a +4 in Con. Sentinel is also an awesome feat for Paladins.

I think I would do-

lvl 4 +2 Str or Tough
lvl 8 +2 Str or Tough
lvl 12 +2 Cha or Sentinel
lvl 16 +2 Cha or Sentinel

Drasek · May 31, 2018

Vymair said:
It's a fine build. Getting to 20 is considered the optimal play by most people but I personally find feats to be more fun. I'd consider Sentinel since it's just fun and also has the benefit of keeping the attacks on you with your high AC, damage reduction (due to Heavy Armor Mastery).

I took a look at Sentinel. It seems very good, but how common are opportunity attacks in 5e? It's not a grid-heavy system and has less "rules" for it compared to Pathfinder. Do they still happen a lot?

CTurbo said:
First of all I like your build. Heavy Armor Master is a great level 1 feat for a Paladin. I would probably stay a Str Pally too despite Dex being superior to Str in most ways.

Maxing your attack stat is always a great idea, but it is a little boring if you know what I mean. If you didn't do it at lvl 4, you'd definitely want to do it at lvl 8 for sure. Having a 20 Charisma is awesome too, but it's not as critical. You could leave it at 18 and still be great if you wanted. The biggest potential issue I'm seeing is a 12 Con which I would not be happy with on a Paladin. I think the Tough feat is mandatory here. It's essentially the same as putting a +4 in Con. Sentinel is also an awesome feat for Paladins.

I think I would do-

lvl 4 +2 Str or Tough
lvl 8 +2 Str or Tough
lvl 12 +2 Cha or Sentinel
lvl 16 +2 Cha or Sentinel

Feats give some flavor to the game. I'm kind of an old-school gamer, so stacking bonuses is not my favourite thing to do. It's boring, as you said.
Regarding Charisma, is 18 enough?

Also, again. Is Shield Master any good with this latest change? I like the other things that it gives, but the shove ability seems very weak now.

Caliban · May 31, 2018

I'd seriously considered taking Resilient (Constitution) - many paladin spells are Concentration and your character is set up as a front line fighter, so you'll be taking hits.

After the most recent ruling, Shield Master is still good, but probably not worth it until lvl 11+ when spells like Disintegrate become more common.

Sentinel really depends on if you are going to have other characters adjacent to you (so you get a free shot if the enemy attacks them), or if your DM has enemies move away (thus provoking) for tactical reasons frequently or not. If the bad guys just walk up to and stand there attacking the most heavily armored guy in the party...it's not that great a feat. If they are constantly trying to get past you to target the squishier members, then it's fantastic

UngeheuerLich · Jun 1, 2018

Str is a great stat. People are underevaluating it. They miss:
Str saving throws. Paladins are not proficient. So if you dump str you are falling on your face a lot.
Carrying capacity and heavy armor. Str 8 paladins have problems wearing medium armor and a shield. So they will suffer from low armor for quite a few levels.
Athletics is far superior to acrobatics since it can be used actively. Grabbed by an enemy? Just use the attack action and replace your first attack with a shove.
Grab an enemy yourself so it won't get to your friends. Shove it to do the same.
Athletics is used for swimming and climbing and jumping. One skill does everything you need.
Longbows for a paladin??? That is quite wrong for most paladins. May be used to shoot fleeing enemies in the back...
Initiative is overrated. Yes, going first is nice. As paladin you will be nearly equally happy just waiting for your wizard to open the combat with a nice fireball.

CTurbo · Jun 1, 2018

Drasek said:
I took a look at Sentinel. It seems very good, but how common are opportunity attacks in 5e? It's not a grid-heavy system and has less "rules" for it compared to Pathfinder. Do they still happen a lot?

Feats give some flavor to the game. I'm kind of an old-school gamer, so stacking bonuses is not my favourite thing to do. It's boring, as you said.
Regarding Charisma, is 18 enough?

Also, again. Is Shield Master any good with this latest change? I like the other things that it gives, but the shove ability seems very weak now.

Yes you would be fine with 18 Cha. I'd max Str for sure though.

What is the rest of your party? That'll determine whether or not Sentinel is worth it. My favorite part of it is getting a relatively reliable reaction attack. If you have any other melee character, you just go fight beside him. He benefits too from your Aura of Protection. I'd skip Shield Master.

D&D 5E [5e] Paladin Build help

Drasek

First Post

Gavin O.

First Post

Drasek

First Post

Gavin O.

First Post

Vymair

First Post

CTurbo

Explorer

Drasek

First Post

Caliban

Rules Monkey

UngeheuerLich

Legend

CTurbo

Explorer

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