Best High level Archer Build?

I was trying to plan an archer for my next PC.

I want to use a dwarf fighter and then be a dwarven defender after 10th level or so. My question was, what feats should I take?

The archery feats are: Far Shot, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Many Shot, Precise Shot, Imporved Precise Shot.

The other feats I wanted are: Weapon Focus, Improved Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Specialization.

The required feats for Dwarven Defender Prestige Class are: Dodge, Endurance, and Toughness.

I was considering giving up Many Shot because if I used the defensive stance, I would seldom need to make non-full round attacks. Greater Weapon Specialization might also be ruled out because I would prefer to move to the prestige class before level 12.

Are there any other ideas of what feats I should give up? Or any feats I should add? This is just an exercise on how to build the most powerful archer in combat. It is too complex if you consider non combat where a Ranger would excel or role-playing. Am I wrong to try to move to the Dwarven defender prestige class? Should I stay straight fighter? The biggest weakness I saw with the dwarven defender was that you often need to move to attack things. Specializing in archery would remove this weakness, but at the same time it requires 3 feats that probably aren't the most useful for my character build.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

That's a weird concept... Dwarven Defender Archer!

Is that with strict 3.5 only material?

Otherwise, the Order of the Bow Initiate would come to mind.

And, of course, the best archers are still elven clerics, altho they nerfed archery boosts a lot!

Bye
Thanee

Thanee said:

That's a weird concept... Dwarven Defender Archer!

Is that with strict 3.5 only material?

Otherwise, the Order of the Bow Initiate would come to mind.

And, of course, the best archers are still elven clerics, altho they nerfed archery boosts a lot!

Bye
Thanee

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I only have access to core 3.5 material, Defenders of the Faith and Masters of the Wild. I haven't looked at the prestige classes in those books yet though.

Dwarven Defender Archer does sound a bit odd, but is there any reason why it wouldn't work well?

You mentioned the best archers are still elven clerics? Why is this? They have spells to supplement their archery, but I don't see how they would be better than a fighter at archery. Especially since any cleric or wizard could still cast greater magic weapon on the fighter's arrows. At level 15, the fighter has a BAB that is 4 greater than the cleric's.

Divine favour, divine power and righteous might are all range: personal. Although if you don't have access to the Persistent Spell feat, then a lot of oomph goes out of the build.

hong said:

Divine favour, divine power and righteous might are all range: personal. Although if you don't have access to the Persistent Spell feat, then a lot of oomph goes out of the build.

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Where do I look to find the persistent spell feat? I don't see it in the 3.5 SRD and I don't have DotF or MotW with me. If it isn't found on-line, could you describe the feat to me. Anything that could make those 3 personal spells more useful would help a lot.

Normally it would take 3 rounds of combat to use those spells. Then you would be an awesome character, but you lost 3 rounds where you could have done damage and you are also out 3 spells.

Let's take a 16th level cleric and 12th level fighter/4th level dwarven defender. We'll give both of them a 20 dex and an 18 str with a +4 composite bow...

Cleric: spend 3 rounds using those spells to gain: +8 to hit (-1 for size modifier, +4 BAB). +5 to damage. +14 to strength (doesn't help much with archery unless you have a bow that you carry for just that occasion). Constitution +4 (30 temp HP's). +3 to AC. DR 15/evil.
Rounds 3-8 would be attacks with +26/+26/+21/+16/+11. Each hit does 1D8+9 damage. If 4 out of 5 arrows hit each round for the 5 attacks, then the damage would be between 200 and 340.

Dwarven Defender: Takes defensive stance to gain: +2 bonus on all saves, +2 strength (doesn't help much with archery). Constitution +4 (30 temp HP's). +4 to AC. Then attacks at a +22/+22/+17/+12/+7. Each hit does 1D8+8 damage. If 3 out of 5 arrows hit each round for 3 attacks, then the damage would be between 81 and 144.
Rounds 3-8 would be the same attack/damage and would add between 135 and 240.
Total damage would be between 216 and 384.

For an 8 round battle, the difference isn't that large, but I was assuming no magic arrows or magic weapon enhancements. Both of those would give more benefit to the fighter/DD. In battles of 10+ rounds, the calculations get harder because you have spells expiring for the cleric and the defensive stance expiring for the fighter. In battles of less than 8 rounds, the fighter outperforms the cleric by a much larger margin.

The feats I gave the fighter are: Dodge, Endurance, Toughness, Far Shot, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (comp longbow), IWF, WS(comp longbow), GWS.

The feats I gave the cleric are: Far Shot, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, and Combat Casting.

My original question was how to build the best archer. If using the fighter/DD works best, did I choose a good selection of feats? Are there feats you would add or subtract? If another class works better, which one and how/why?

I have a 5th level fighter with these feats:

Improved Initative
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
Weapon Focus: Composite Longbow
Weapon Specialization: Composite Longbow

I gave the character an 18 dex and a 18 str. So right now with a masterwork mighty (+4 str) composite bow I am:

+11 1d8+6 or +9/+9 1d8+6/1d8+6

Within 30':

+12 1d8+7 or +10/+10 1d8+7/1d8+7

I plan to take Order of the Bow from sword and fist at 6th level.


I plan on picking up Improved Precise Shot at some point along with Improved Weapon Focus (whether by the class or just taking the feat). The nice thing about Order of the Bow guy is he gets Improved Weapon Focus and Improved Weapon Spec later on anyway.

Another good prestige class is the Deepwood Archer from Masters of the Wild.

I didn't say Dwarven Defender wouldn't work, but he doesn't get any real benefits for archery, I think.

If you are going for a fighter, then Order of the Bow Initiate (from Sword and Fist, I think) is a great Prestige Class.

About clerics and especially elven clerics (because they get weapon proficiency with all bows, which kinda helps - also the elf domain (FRCS) grants the Point Blank Shot feat for free):

Persistant Spell increases the duration of any personal spell to 24h for +4 spell levels, so beginning with 9th level you can make spells like Divine Favor persistant, which is usually enough to get on par with a fighter. Divine Power gives you the fighter BAB and +6 Str and can also be made persistant later (well much later ).

You can also use Quicken Spell instead of or even in addition to Persistant Spell, which also works nicely, as you can full attack and still boost yourself meanwhile.

If you have a wizard who can cast Greater Magic Weapon for you, that's of course a good thing. The cleric can do that himself, tho, and doesn't take away from the wizard's firepower that way.

And there is no question, that clerics have much more useful out of combat abilities compared to fighters, and even in combat (protection spells, healing, etc)!

The only real weakness of the cleric is antimagic, like Greater Dispel Magic.

It is a bit better now, with the attribute buffs being only 1 min/level instead of 1 hour/level, which was insane.

Bye
Thanee

A decent elven archer cleric should have the following...

- Elf Domain (free Point Blank Shot)
- Rapid Shot
- Extend Spell
- Persistant Spell

Other than that, there are a few options, like...

- Quicken Spell
- Precise Shot

Bye
Thanee

Ok, let's take a 16th level elven cleric as example.

You don't need a super-high Str, 12 should be enough, rather have a high Dex and Wis, as well as decent Con and Cha.

Let's assume an elven cleric of Labelas Enoreth (Elf and Time domains - see FRCS, Time Domain also adds some nice spells like Haste, Contingency and later even Time Stop). It's not only a very powerful build, it's also perfectly in character with the time-altering Metamagic.

Cleric 10/Contemplative 6

Domains: Elf (FRCS), Time (FRCS), Mysticism (Defenders of the Faith), Meditation (Oriental Adventures - Mahasarpa Web Enhancement).

Feats: Point Blank Shot (from Elf Domain), Improved Initiative (from Time Domain), Rapid Shot, Extend Spell, Persistant Spell, Quicken Spell, Power Attack, Divine Might (instead of the last two you can also get Precise Shot and Create Wondrous Item, or anything else).

This character will be able to have Persistant Divine Favor (+5 attack and damage) and Divine Power (fighter BAB and +6 Str) running! He will be able to have those prepared as backup with quicken spell, in case they get dispelled! He can also have nice spells like Death Ward or Shield of Faith, Magical Vestment, Spell Resistance, and of course Greater Magic Weapon.

With a Charisma enhancing item, his saves will be very good, thanks to the clerics high saves and the Mysticism domain power.

Without even a single round of preparation and just a quickened Haste and Divine Might (also a free action), he'll surely outshine the fighter in combat.

Bye
Thanee

One of my friends played an Elven Ranger (Archery) build out this weekend, and it was outstanding. Not only great RP stuff, with good skills, tracking, etc. He dominated with Entangle, Woodland Stride, Shot on the Run, Manyshot, and Camoflage.

Entangle gave him the "wooded enviro".
Woodland stride allowed unhindered movement, while opponents were held or half move.
Shot on the run allowed him to move, shoot, move, to minimize cover/concealment.
Manyshot gave him MULTIPLE attacks at a high BAB, ALONG with a move.
Camoflage in the "entangle" environment allowed him to hide in plain sight with his move action.

Wow, that was wicked. And, he did it over and over.

We were 16th level, and I think is BAB with items was +34, (manyshot reduced by 4, 6, or 8 for up to four attacks), and he dealt 1d8+11 (17-20/x3). Wicked. With the defense, it was a very good combo.