Who Was at Fault?

jayoungr

Legend
Supporter
Last night, our group wrapped up a long-running Feng Shui game, and while it was mostly loads of fun, there was one odd moment that led to some bruised feelings. I was just an observer, not a participant, but I'd be interested in what the rest of you make of it.

We were in a multi-boss fight. Player A and Player B both targeted one of the bosses, which was some kind of eldritch abomination in the shape of a hound. Player A was trying to get the hound to chase his PC (PC-A), while Player B was trying to get her PC (PC-B) to grapple the hound. At one point, PC-A called out to PC-B to let the hound go because PC-A had a plan, and PC-B complied.

A round or two later, the hound attacked PC-B, and the GM rolled double sixes, which means something spectacular and unusual happens. The GM ruled that PC-B ended up standing in the hound's mouth, holding it open. Player B got very excited and said she knew exactly what she was going to do on her next attack (breathe fire into the hound's gullet).

However, Player A had a turn before that happened. He declared that he was having PC-A whack the hound on the nose and then attack it. He rolled really well, so the GM ruled that PC-A took PC-B's place in the hound's mouth, although this was not Player A's stated intention with the attack. Player B still got to make the breath attack on her next turn, but now she had to do it at a penalty to avoid hitting PC-A.

Afterward, Player B felt miffed about the whole thing. She said she felt like she had been a good sport by letting Player A have his moment earlier, and she hadn't been allowed to have her moment in return. She brought it up privately afterward with the GM via e-mail, and his response was "Try not to let other players' dice rolls spoil your fun."

(I've tried to give the minimum necessary amount of context for the story to make sense, but there are other interpersonal and game factors that might make a difference. I'll clarify if they seem to become relevant.)

So--what do you folks think? Was Player A too aggressive? Was Player B too sensitive? Did the GM handle it badly? If this situation came up at your table, what would you do?
 

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I think both players and DMs need to be conscious of players getting to have their moments. I’m always trying to give PCs opportunities for moments of awesome.

It sounds like Player A didn’t mean to end up in that position, though. I’m not sure why the GM would’ve ruled that way, but I wouldn’t say it was the other players’ dice cutting out a player’s awesome moment, but the GM, making the response a little tone-deaf.

That being said, sometimes, yeah, that awesome moment you’re setting up for gets scooped by another player. It’s a bummer, but part of the randomness of games. But I don’t think that’s what happened here. If it had happened to me as a GM, I think next session I would talk to the group together before the next session, apologize, and work to move forward to improve the game.
 


Schmoe

Adventurer
The GM was "at fault," unless there is something in the Feng Shui rules I'm missing. There was no real reason for the GM to rule that Player A took Player B's place in the hound's mouth, which is ultimately what spoiled the moment.

That being said, I'm not sure I see why it is such a big deal that it would blow up into drama on the internet. Are there not enough moments to go around in the game?
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Did the hound end up dead?

If yes, high-fives all round and head back to town for a beer.

If no, and if anyone survived, then some pointed analysis of the failed tactics makes perfect sense.

As for the out-of-game stuff, I also agree that a) sometimes that big moment you've been working toward just doesn't come off no matter what you do and b) in the grand scheme of things it's really not a big deal.

That said, were it my game player A would be taking a huge gamble in that hit-the-nose attack (a called shot of some sort, I assume?): that attack would have been at very high risk of fumbling into player B's character in the hound's mouth on any kind of miss.
 

Riley37

First Post
Player A had a turn before that happened. He declared that he was having PC-A whack the hound on the nose and then attack it. He rolled really well, so the GM ruled that PC-A took PC-B's place in the hound's mouth, although this was not Player A's stated intention with the attack.

That was Player A's cue to say "Wait, no, that's not what my PC does. I avoid displacing PC-B. I mean, we're teammates, and we've already made efforts to coordinate our actions and follow each other's plans. If that means PC-A fumbles and fails, so be it, but PC-A is NOT displacing PC-B."

If you're Player A, and you say this, and the GM insists that Player A's excellent roll means that PC-A did what the GM wanted PC-A to do, not what Player A wanted PC-A to do, then it's time to walk away from that GM.

If you're Player B, and Player A *didn't* say that, then it's time for Player B to raise that question. If Player A responds "I accepted the GM's decision because it was funny", then it's time to reconsider how far PC-B will go for teamwork with PC-A. Don't roll to avoid hitting PC-A with the fire attack; roll for the fire blast to push PC-A further down the hound's throat! If Player A gets upset about that: turnabout is fair play. I mean, humans choke on hot dogs, so demon hounds can choke on hot humans, right?
 

Riley37

First Post
You can attack the hound, when you it will eat
You can roll real well, but the other players' roll has you beat
You can put your character in the mouth, but you can't stay there
You can want the punishment, but some games aren't fair

And you want your moment, but the moment doesn't want you
We all want the spotlight
And you want your moment, but the moment doesn't want you
No one, no one, no one ever is to blame

For anyone who missed the reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07vRNeuU7QM

The bit about paladins is a petty vendetta. Vengeance Paladins know *exactly* who to blame.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
I'd say the GM could have handled it much better. It wasn't really A's fault at that moment. Nor B's. It was the GM's choice that made the die roll of A steal B's setup. The GM could have had nearly anything else happen, to allow both to have a good shining moment, but they didn't.
 

AriochQ

Adventurer
Did the GM know that player A had the breath fire down the gullet plan?

If not, then it is just the kind of stuff that happens during normal play and Player A needs to just accept that things don't always turn out like you plan them in combat.

If the GM knew of Player A's plan, then they should have given player A their moment to shine rather than swapping positions with player B.
 

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