5E Darksun Version 4.0 - Page 3
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zardnaar View Post
    Its also the way it interacted with 2d6 weapons. You have to roll 4 dice and its probably a huge damage nerf. Also raises issues with the great weapon fighter style so you would be rolling damage with disadvantage and rerolling 1's. Its a pain in the ass. I asked my players and they preferred the -1/-1. They liked the idea of advantage or disadvantage on damage rolls just not all of the time.
    Alright, I can see that. But that is an extreme case. Remind me again, how many weapons are 2d6 damage? And how many people take that particular feat? Even if it's more than average, I do have a suggestion or two for that.

    1) Instead of doubling the number of damage dice rolled, just add one more and discard the lowest. It works for any weapon regardless of how many dice rolled, and doesn't nerf the expected average too bad. Also, take the results after rerolling 1s if you're keeping that feat in play.

    2) Change the damage die to d12. You're going this far with changes, why not make changes that work better for all other changes? That's why I would do, but your game and your group. (Kudos for letting your players vote, btw.)

    Anyway, we can go back and forth all day with examples and fixes on which way to go. My version of Dark Sun is much different than what most would expect, which is essentially D&D dressed up for the apocalypse. I prefer a version that gets away from the standard D&D tropes and focuses on the survival aspects of the game. Limited resources, impossible odds, alien world. And of course, mechanics to emphasize it better. I just don't have the time.

  2. #22
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    I did have an epiphany of sorts, shortly after coming up with the idea. Just now have some time to write and share it with whomever is interested.

    Inferior and Superior: These qualities can be used for both armor and weapons. They describe the relative durability and strength of materials used to construct a weapon or armor. They can also apply to natural weapons and armor to represent tougher hide, thick scales, and sharp claws (superior), or soft membrane, brittle bones, and weak appendages (inferior).

    When an inferior weapon targets a superior armor, the damage dice have disadvantage. Roll 1 extra damage die and discard the highest die rolled.

    Conversely, when a superior weapon targets inferior armor, then the damage dice have advantage. Roll 1 extra damage die and discard the lowest die rolled.

    Inferior items are not affected by other inferior items. Likewise, superior items are not affected by other superior items.

    Average weapons and armors have neither trait, and are unaffected against inferior, superior, and other average items.

    Inferior items are constructed of weak materials, such as (soft) wood, bone, stone, and glass (obsidian). Average items are constructed of common metals, like bronze, copper, and iron, leather, and (strong) wood. Superior items are made of metal alloys, like steel, dragon hide, and most magical constructs. You can get more specific examples if you like, which I would do for this.

    This is a very simple idea (to me) that creates a lot of depth and complexity without a lot of extraneous rules and modifications. It could work for any campaign setting, but in a world like Athas where common resources are rare, it changes things dramatically. You may not use it, but maybe someone else will pick up on it.
    XP Bitbrain gave XP for this post

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Lewis View Post
    Alright, I can see that. But that is an extreme case. Remind me again, how many weapons are 2d6 damage? And how many people take that particular feat? Even if it's more than average, I do have a suggestion or two for that.

    1) Instead of doubling the number of damage dice rolled, just add one more and discard the lowest. It works for any weapon regardless of how many dice rolled, and doesn't nerf the expected average too bad. Also, take the results after rerolling 1s if you're keeping that feat in play.

    2) Change the damage die to d12. You're going this far with changes, why not make changes that work better for all other changes? That's why I would do, but your game and your group. (Kudos for letting your players vote, btw.)

    Anyway, we can go back and forth all day with examples and fixes on which way to go. My version of Dark Sun is much different than what most would expect, which is essentially D&D dressed up for the apocalypse. I prefer a version that gets away from the standard D&D tropes and focuses on the survival aspects of the game. Limited resources, impossible odds, alien world. And of course, mechanics to emphasize it better. I just don't have the time.
    Its not a feat its the combat style level 1 fighters and level 2 Paladins can take. Its also very common using a big two handed sword.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Lewis View Post
    I did have an epiphany of sorts, shortly after coming up with the idea. Just now have some time to write and share it with whomever is interested.

    Inferior and Superior: These qualities can be used for both armor and weapons. They describe the relative durability and strength of materials used to construct a weapon or armor. They can also apply to natural weapons and armor to represent tougher hide, thick scales, and sharp claws (superior), or soft membrane, brittle bones, and weak appendages (inferior).

    When an inferior weapon targets a superior armor, the damage dice have disadvantage. Roll 1 extra damage die and discard the highest die rolled.

    Conversely, when a superior weapon targets inferior armor, then the damage dice have advantage. Roll 1 extra damage die and discard the lowest die rolled.

    Inferior items are not affected by other inferior items. Likewise, superior items are not affected by other superior items.

    Average weapons and armors have neither trait, and are unaffected against inferior, superior, and other average items.

    Inferior items are constructed of weak materials, such as (soft) wood, bone, stone, and glass (obsidian). Average items are constructed of common metals, like bronze, copper, and iron, leather, and (strong) wood. Superior items are made of metal alloys, like steel, dragon hide, and most magical constructs. You can get more specific examples if you like, which I would do for this.

    This is a very simple idea (to me) that creates a lot of depth and complexity without a lot of extraneous rules and modifications. It could work for any campaign setting, but in a world like Athas where common resources are rare, it changes things dramatically. You may not use it, but maybe someone else will pick up on it.
    I won't be using a disadvantage rule or anything similar on damage. The old 2E rules were basically 1 paragraph, my -1/-1 rule+ weapon breaks on a 1 is a single sentence. The increased damage dice for metal weapons would be used over that, a metal greatsword would deal 2d8. Might use the -1/-1 rule and have the superior metal weapon damage dice in the optional rules. The main reason I don't like the superior metal weapons rules is because you can get metal amor on DS its just rare so if you have a metal weapon going up against metal armor it should not have the increased weapon damage dice.

    I'm not 100% sold on the -1/-1 thing but any rule replacing it has to be very simple. Weapon breaks on a 1 and DMs discretion on disadvantage to hit (DS inferior weapons vs metal armor) for example is very simple.

    A wooden Rapier is silly, an obsidian sword existed IRL and was very sharp but useless vs steel armor.

    The rules don't have to duplicate the old 2E rules 100$ but I want the feel of the setting to be as close as possible. Defiling for example creates an ash circle the mechanical effects of the defiling can vary a bit. Also simplify some of the 2E rules their rules for inferior weapons had 3 different modifiers for stone, wood and bone for example. If someone really likes the 2E rules for inferior weapons and defiling I think they are actually compatible enough with 5E to use them RAW.

    Its also why I am ignoring some of the silliness from 2E as well like Paraelemental clerics, the Prism Pentad, Dragon Kings etc.
    Last edited by Zardnaar; Saturday, 16th June, 2018 at 10:15 PM.

  5. #25
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    I prefer the idea that inferior weapons just "break" You can make it even fun. On a Crit, make a straight d20 roll DC10 on a fail it deals 1d4 extra damage and is destroyed.

    Or, on a 1 make the save with no extra damage.

    Less modifiers. Easy to remember. 5% chance of potentially loosing your weapon.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zardnaar View Post
    Its not a feat its the combat style level 1 fighters and level 2 Paladins can take. Its also very common using a big two handed sword.
    Would you say it is more common than using a great axe, for example? Statistically speaking, it seems like a superior choice for obtaining maximum benefit over a thematic choice. I'd fault game design for that paricular problem and proceed with changing it to a single d12. House rules. Problem solved.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Lewis View Post
    Would you say it is more common than using a great axe, for example? Statistically speaking, it seems like a superior choice for obtaining maximum benefit over a thematic choice. I'd fault game design for that paricular problem and proceed with changing it to a single d12. House rules. Problem solved.
    Or you could apply a simple -1/-1 or whatever the number is and not have to rewrite anything yes? WHy crate more work for yourself if I had the inclination I would rewrite all the PHB races and make 4 new domains. Only 1 person lol.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zardnaar View Post
    Or you could apply a simple -1/-1 or whatever the number is and not have to rewrite anything yes? WHy crate more work for yourself if I had the inclination I would rewrite all the PHB races and make 4 new domains. Only 1 person lol.
    You have already done a lot of work just writing up this treatment, and 4 times no less! Creating more work shouldn't be a deterrent to anyone willing to put in this much effort if it makes an improvement. If I had the time, I would rewrite the system from the ground up and tailor it specifically for this setting. And it would play much better for it.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Lewis View Post
    You have already done a lot of work just writing up this treatment, and 4 times no less! Creating more work shouldn't be a deterrent to anyone willing to put in this much effort if it makes an improvement. If I had the time, I would rewrite the system from the ground up and tailor it specifically for this setting. And it would play much better for it.
    I have recycled as much as I can. Rewriting races isn't to hard but 4 archetypes is a lot. It's why I tied some of the PHB domains to the elemental planes.

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