Your Suspension of Disbelief: SHATTERED!
For immersion, I'll grant that.
But for suspension of disbelief? Dude, the Monster Manual represents more violations of physical and biological reality than it has paragraphs of text. Dragonborn do not exist. You cannot wiggle your fingers and say a few words and make a 30' ball of fire leap form your hands. No GM is so good as to get you past that. You have to set aside how the real and reasonable world works yourself.
mrpopstar
Sparkly Dude
You seem to imply here and in your previous post that narrative immersion and suspension of disbelief are somehow mutually exclusive when they are very much the same thing, and (in D&D terms) the Dungeon Master's ability to push cognition is wholly dependent upon a player's willingness to be transported. It's entirely collaborative.
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mrpopstar
Sparkly Dude
Immersion can be objectively measured (so not totally subjective) but I agree with the main goal.
pming
Legend
Hiya!
For me, when I'm playing, there is one thing that ALWAYS does it for me:
Bad Guys that aren't REALLY bad guys.
A bad guy, say an Evil Cleric who worships Nerull (Greyhawk God of Death, Darkness, Murder and The Undergound). He has a grand plan involving the poisoning of an entire town via it's drinking well; the poison will either kill you, drive you into an insane murderer, or cause you to go blind....or all three of the above. The PC's are discovering clues, figuring out who's doing what, track down a bad guy who is 'in the know' and get the location to the dungeon the High Priest is at where he is finishing the creation of the spell + potion poison...which will be finished 'really soon' (as in "Ha...I can tell you all this now because it's too late! By the time you find my master the deed will be done!").
So the PC's rest up for a day and a half to get HP's back and buy some equipment.
And nothing happens.
THAT is what kicks my Suspension of Disbelief toggle switch on (and angers me into an almost Hulk-like rage!). When a "bad guy" basically stops doing bad stuff until the PC's are ready. When it becomes obvious that the DM is specifically 'waiting' for the PC's to get ready, and when they are, THEN it's suddenly "As you burst through the door, you interrupt the spell! The Evil Cleric is almost finished!"...but no matter how many rounds go buy, it is never actually in danger of being finished. Both DM's are mostly to blame for this, but a good part is also shared by the writer of the adventure. Anytime I'm reading, as a DM mind you, an adventure and I see something that says "The ritual will be started on the day the PC's enter the dungeon and will be nearing completion when the PC's encounter the Evil Cleric on the lower levels". GRRRRR!!!
To me this is basically the DM and/or the writer saying "Don't worry, the girl doesn't get eaten by the eels" <--- a reference to The Princess Bride movie; the "DM", Grandpa, basically kicks the kids SoD on and the scene suddenly snaps back to reality for the Grandpa to say this, because he's worried the kid is getting "worried". This is the same effect for me when it becomes appearant that we, as PC's, are "expected to win".
This is probably why I'm such a "killer DM". I never do this. If the PC's pussyfoot around for too long, tough kobold nuggets! The Evil Cleric finishes and all my players PC's now have to make a Con save to see how long it takes them to die because of the poison.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
For me, when I'm playing, there is one thing that ALWAYS does it for me:
Bad Guys that aren't REALLY bad guys.
A bad guy, say an Evil Cleric who worships Nerull (Greyhawk God of Death, Darkness, Murder and The Undergound). He has a grand plan involving the poisoning of an entire town via it's drinking well; the poison will either kill you, drive you into an insane murderer, or cause you to go blind....or all three of the above. The PC's are discovering clues, figuring out who's doing what, track down a bad guy who is 'in the know' and get the location to the dungeon the High Priest is at where he is finishing the creation of the spell + potion poison...which will be finished 'really soon' (as in "Ha...I can tell you all this now because it's too late! By the time you find my master the deed will be done!").
So the PC's rest up for a day and a half to get HP's back and buy some equipment.
And nothing happens.
THAT is what kicks my Suspension of Disbelief toggle switch on (and angers me into an almost Hulk-like rage!). When a "bad guy" basically stops doing bad stuff until the PC's are ready. When it becomes obvious that the DM is specifically 'waiting' for the PC's to get ready, and when they are, THEN it's suddenly "As you burst through the door, you interrupt the spell! The Evil Cleric is almost finished!"...but no matter how many rounds go buy, it is never actually in danger of being finished. Both DM's are mostly to blame for this, but a good part is also shared by the writer of the adventure. Anytime I'm reading, as a DM mind you, an adventure and I see something that says "The ritual will be started on the day the PC's enter the dungeon and will be nearing completion when the PC's encounter the Evil Cleric on the lower levels". GRRRRR!!!
To me this is basically the DM and/or the writer saying "Don't worry, the girl doesn't get eaten by the eels" <--- a reference to The Princess Bride movie; the "DM", Grandpa, basically kicks the kids SoD on and the scene suddenly snaps back to reality for the Grandpa to say this, because he's worried the kid is getting "worried". This is the same effect for me when it becomes appearant that we, as PC's, are "expected to win".This is probably why I'm such a "killer DM". I never do this. If the PC's pussyfoot around for too long, tough kobold nuggets! The Evil Cleric finishes and all my players PC's now have to make a Con save to see how long it takes them to die because of the poison.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
ad_hoc
(they/them)
For me it's like any other joke or reference. If it is rehearsed it isn't funny.
If it comes up in the course of the game then it is fair game.
If the peasants are being oppressed and someone shouts the line that's fair game. If the party is instructed to count to a certain number before doing something, again fair game.
I do agree that Python references tend to be overused.
I've never seen a Month Python film
Having missed the Holy Grail of comedy you could not possibly know The Meaning of Life
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