Everybody Cheats?

Gary Alan Fine's early survey of role-playing games found that everybody cheated. But the definition of what cheating is when it applies to role-playing games differs from other uses of the term. Does everyone really cheat in RPGs? Yes, Everybody Gary Alan Fine's work, Shared Fantasy, came to the following conclusion: Perhaps surprisingly, cheating in fantasy role-playing games is...

Gary Alan Fine's early survey of role-playing games found that everybody cheated. But the definition of what cheating is when it applies to role-playing games differs from other uses of the term. Does everyone really cheat in RPGs?

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Yes, Everybody​

Gary Alan Fine's work, Shared Fantasy, came to the following conclusion:
Perhaps surprisingly, cheating in fantasy role-playing games is extremely common--almost everyone cheats and this dishonesty is implicitly condoned in most situation. The large majority of interviewees admitted to cheating, and in the games I played, I cheated as well.
Fine makes it a point of clarify that cheating doesn't carry quite the same implications in role-playing as it does in other games:
Since FRP players are not competing against each other, but are cooperating, cheating does not have the same effect on the game balance. For example, a player who cheats in claiming that he has rolled a high number while his character is fighting a dragon or alien spaceship not only helps himself, but also his party, since any member of the party might be killed. Thus the players have little incentive to prevent this cheating.
The interesting thing about cheating is that if everyone cheats, parity is maintained among the group. But when cheating is rampant, any player who adheres slavishly to die-roll results has "bad luck" with the dice. Cheating takes place in a variety of ways involving dice (the variable component PCs can't control), such as saying the dice is cocked, illegible, someone bumped the table, it rolled off a book or dice tray, etc.

Why Cheat?​

One of the challenges with early D&D is that co-creator Gary Gygax's design used rarity to make things difficult. This form of design reasoned that the odds against certain die rolls justified making powerful character builds rare, and it all began with character creation.

Character creation was originally 3d6 for each attribute, full stop. With the advent of computers, players could automate this rolling process by rapidly randomizing thousands of characters until they got the combination of numbers they wanted. These numbers dictated the PC's class (paladins, for example, required a very strict set of high attributes). Psionics too, in Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, required a specific set of attributes that made it possible to spontaneously manifest psionic powers. Later forms of character generation introduced character choice: 4d6 assigned to certain attributes, a point buy system, etc. But in the early incarnations of the game, it was in the player's interest, if she wanted to play a paladin or to play a psionic, to roll a lot -- or just cheat (using the dice pictured above).

Game masters have a phrase for cheating known as "fudging" a roll; the concept of fudging means the game master may ignore a roll for or against PCs if it doesn't fit the kind of game he's trying to create. PCs can be given extra chances to reroll, or the roll could be interpreted differently. This "fudging" happens in an ebb and flow as the GM determines the difficulty and if the die rolls support the narrative.

GM screens were used as a reference tool with relevant charts and to prevent players from seeing maps and notes. But they also helped make it easier for GMs to fudge rolls. A poll on RPG.net shows that over 90% of GMs fudged rolls behind the screen.

Cheating Is the Rule​

One of Fifth Edition's innovations was adopting a common form of cheating -- the reroll -- by creating advantage. PCs now have rules encouraging them to roll the dice twice, something they've been doing for decades with the right excuse.

When it comes to cheating, it seems like we've all been doing it. But given that we're all working together to have a good time, is it really cheating?
 

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Michael Tresca

Michael Tresca

smiteworks

Explorer
I "cheat" in old school CRPGs by re-rolling stats until I get a heroic character. It's a single player game so doing that doesn't impact anyone else's fun. I also cheat by saving often.


For cooperative games, I never cheat rolls as a DM or a player. As a DM, I'll often grant a free reroll in dire circumstances if the player roleplays well or the whole party is begging for one. This fits in with the game IMO because they often make a verbal prayer to the in-game Gods that the characters follow.


I've had players at the table that I was pretty sure were cheating. They would roll multiple times and report the highest (the other rolls were just practice) or they would report a different result or different "math". If I am sure of it, I'll bust them out in front of the party. In the end, if they feel that they really have to cheat in a game of fun around a table then I don't sweat it too much. I would encourage them by example to have fun with however the dice roll.


Thanks to how it works in Fantasy Grounds and other VTTs, that is mostly a thing that only happens around a physical table with physical dice. We still get the occasional report of impossible die roll sequences from users though where someone thinks something is wrong if they roll too well or not well enough multiple times in a row.
 

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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
I am unsurprised at such a result. Not that I know the methodology used in the research, but just in general. Statements of some folks in this thread notwithstanding, I wouldn't bat an eye if told that the number of folks who *NEVER* cheat is statistically insignificant.

It isn't just dice rolls - ever not jot down a hit point lost here or there? Conveniently forget whether you've used a spell slot? Forget to track your rations or ammunition?

As a GM, ever have an impromptu NPC start with just a name, then have to decide what they have for stats piecemeal as you go? That's probably cheating.

But, I don't care. I'm not playing for money. I'm not doing tournament play. You want to have an extra arrow or two, I'm not going to sweat it. When it comes down to brass tacks in a big boss fight, I'd really prefer to stick to the rules, but most of the time I'm just not that concerned. In the long run, it just doesn't matter. Anything that will come out in the wash is not worth the trouble of policing.

And as to the idea that if you cheat a bit, now and again, the whole thing becomes "meaningless". Two things: 1) There is a spectrum - from never cheats, through small things nobody really cares about, to more major stuff, to being a bald faced liar claiming you rolled a 20 when everyone can see there's a 3 on the die. You might have an argument that cheating erodes the meaning, but if you're going to go to the absolute end on a small matter, I'm going to call hyperbole and melodrama.

2) We are talking about pretending to be elves, in a social entertainment. It starts out as pretty meaningless, in the scale of things. Nobody is going to suffer real-world physical harm. My game does not feed orphans in Nigeria. "Meaning" is probably not the proper word to attach to it.
 

Dire Bare

Legend
Well I WAS going to write an article titled "Nobody Cheats" but unfortunately we have data points (both research and surveys) to the contrary.

I'm not sure why some are giving you hassle. A few posters almost seem to be taking this as a personal attack, or an attack on their beloved hobby. "Are you calling me a cheater Tresca?"

Your article is on point, cheating is rampant in our hobby . . . so much so that some folks criticizing your points literally describe themselves cheating. It's somewhat normalized in our hobby culture, as you point out in the article.

I think cheating was more common back in the day and that as game design has advanced to take some of the randomness out, and some of the strict prereqs out (high scores to play a paladin), cheating has become less common. However, I can't remember playing a session when someone didn't appear to be cheating in some way.

Of course, how you define "cheating" and how serious of a problem it is varies with individuals and groups. DM "fudging" is a time-honored tradition that can serve good storytelling. I love how you mention newer game mechanics that essentially bake in "cheating" right into the game . . . of course, at that point, it's no longer "cheating", sorta, kinda . . .

Player cheating is irritating, to me at least. There's less need for it now to play the character concept you want, and the only reason to do so now (in my view) is to "win" more and feel powerful. And I can understand why some would be tempted to do so if they feel powerless or depressed about real life . . . but ultimately it makes the game less fun for the group and isn't a very healthy way to deal with feelings of depression. But I feel the same way about min-maxing and character optimization too.
 

dwayne

Adventurer
If you have to cheat to succeed at something to win then you never really have won. Because the victory of a well-deserved accomplishment is far better than a quick cheat. It also cheapens the game and makes the game very unfun for most. also if you cheat you are less likly to care about the game its self because nothing matters you can do anything, no sence of real lose or accomplishment character. This is why I as a gm do not fudge die rolls and let them roll how the roll, it is the randomness and unpredictabily that keeps things even. When you suspend this to let something slide or to help further the story it become much more easy to do it again and again. After a while the players see this and figure out well does not matter we can try anything the GM will help us out as he does not want us to kill the story or die. I had to learn this the hard way as a GM over the years and lost many good players because of bad ones so think before you fudge the roll. Because some of the best adventures can come from unexspected mistakes and failures as well as memories and adventures.
 

Dire Bare

Legend
We are talking about pretending to be elves, in a social entertainment. It starts out as pretty meaningless, in the scale of things. Nobody is going to suffer real-world physical harm.

Well, not until the game table is flipped and the six-guns come out . . . .

"Hey, hombre has a loaded die up his sleeve! Draw cheater!" *bang*
 

Lylandra

Adventurer
I fudge as a DM whenever I get too lucky or unlucky, but only if it really doesn't fit my statistic or would risk killing my players (i.e. 3 confirmed nat 20s in a row).

I also "fudge" at NPC gen in PF as I let them have the stats I want them to. If my players have high stats, then I'd like to have memorable adversaries with similarly high stats.
 

UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
I have fudged as a DM, though less often in the modern game. In the old days you could have a tpk every session if the dice fell as the may.


Not accurately keeping track of spell slots, ammo and so fort, not deliberately but I am pretty sure it happened. I did have a dice that cheated for me for a few years until some bastard stole it from me. Never used it all the time. I did not even know it was bent until I had used it for some time. It was a standard commercial D20 and after a number of sessions I wondered, ran about 600 rolls on it and as, at the time I remembered my stats, ran the tests for a normal distribution.


It was skewed, favoured the range 13 to 17 as I remember.
 

It seems that a player "cheating" to directly benefit their own PC and a DM "cheating" to increase the fun for the whole group are so different that they seem to me that they shouldn't even fall under the same label.

Just because a player's cheating to benefit their own PC might indirectly benefit other PCs, it also may directly harm the other players by making it less fun. A DM fudging may directly benefit or harm the PCs when it's as likely to make a fight that could have anti-climatically ended early take longer as it is shortening a slog of a fight that is no longer fun, but which also directly benefits the players by making it more fun.

So leaving aside the PCs and focusing on the real world players: player cheating usually only benefits one and harms the others, whereas DM fudging usually benefits everyone.

It's apples and oranges.
 

Inchoroi

Adventurer
I'd actually love to get a d20 that's weighted to more likely roll a 1. Just for one player who, no matter what dice he uses, has obscene luck. Its crazy. We even have a dice tray that we roll on, and he's straight up rolling it, no sleight of hand involved. I just want to see what would happen with his luck if he had a weighted d20.
 

UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
I'd actually love to get a d20 that's weighted to more likely roll a 1. Just for one player who, no matter what dice he uses, has obscene luck. Its crazy. We even have a dice tray that we roll on, and he's straight up rolling it, no sleight of hand involved. I just want to see what would happen with his luck if he had a weighted d20.

Well for what it is worth I never got another like it. I do remember that in the early days of spreadsheets I set up an excel sheet to do the stats and rolled samples from about 6 or so of my d20 collection but as far as I remember they were all fair or close enough given the sample sizes.

and I know your frustration. I know 2 players like that. it is not too bad in an rpg but try wargaming against them.
 

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