Everybody Cheats?

Gary Alan Fine's early survey of role-playing games found that everybody cheated. But the definition of what cheating is when it applies to role-playing games differs from other uses of the term. Does everyone really cheat in RPGs? Yes, Everybody Gary Alan Fine's work, Shared Fantasy, came to the following conclusion: Perhaps surprisingly, cheating in fantasy role-playing games is...

Gary Alan Fine's early survey of role-playing games found that everybody cheated. But the definition of what cheating is when it applies to role-playing games differs from other uses of the term. Does everyone really cheat in RPGs?

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Yes, Everybody​

Gary Alan Fine's work, Shared Fantasy, came to the following conclusion:
Perhaps surprisingly, cheating in fantasy role-playing games is extremely common--almost everyone cheats and this dishonesty is implicitly condoned in most situation. The large majority of interviewees admitted to cheating, and in the games I played, I cheated as well.
Fine makes it a point of clarify that cheating doesn't carry quite the same implications in role-playing as it does in other games:
Since FRP players are not competing against each other, but are cooperating, cheating does not have the same effect on the game balance. For example, a player who cheats in claiming that he has rolled a high number while his character is fighting a dragon or alien spaceship not only helps himself, but also his party, since any member of the party might be killed. Thus the players have little incentive to prevent this cheating.
The interesting thing about cheating is that if everyone cheats, parity is maintained among the group. But when cheating is rampant, any player who adheres slavishly to die-roll results has "bad luck" with the dice. Cheating takes place in a variety of ways involving dice (the variable component PCs can't control), such as saying the dice is cocked, illegible, someone bumped the table, it rolled off a book or dice tray, etc.

Why Cheat?​

One of the challenges with early D&D is that co-creator Gary Gygax's design used rarity to make things difficult. This form of design reasoned that the odds against certain die rolls justified making powerful character builds rare, and it all began with character creation.

Character creation was originally 3d6 for each attribute, full stop. With the advent of computers, players could automate this rolling process by rapidly randomizing thousands of characters until they got the combination of numbers they wanted. These numbers dictated the PC's class (paladins, for example, required a very strict set of high attributes). Psionics too, in Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, required a specific set of attributes that made it possible to spontaneously manifest psionic powers. Later forms of character generation introduced character choice: 4d6 assigned to certain attributes, a point buy system, etc. But in the early incarnations of the game, it was in the player's interest, if she wanted to play a paladin or to play a psionic, to roll a lot -- or just cheat (using the dice pictured above).

Game masters have a phrase for cheating known as "fudging" a roll; the concept of fudging means the game master may ignore a roll for or against PCs if it doesn't fit the kind of game he's trying to create. PCs can be given extra chances to reroll, or the roll could be interpreted differently. This "fudging" happens in an ebb and flow as the GM determines the difficulty and if the die rolls support the narrative.

GM screens were used as a reference tool with relevant charts and to prevent players from seeing maps and notes. But they also helped make it easier for GMs to fudge rolls. A poll on RPG.net shows that over 90% of GMs fudged rolls behind the screen.

Cheating Is the Rule​

One of Fifth Edition's innovations was adopting a common form of cheating -- the reroll -- by creating advantage. PCs now have rules encouraging them to roll the dice twice, something they've been doing for decades with the right excuse.

When it comes to cheating, it seems like we've all been doing it. But given that we're all working together to have a good time, is it really cheating?
 

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Michael Tresca

Michael Tresca

Hussar

Legend
Heck pcs having standard hps are the norm in 5e.

And, Rand hps for monsters so I can fudge is a pretty weak argument from my POV.
 

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Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Heck pcs having standard hps are the norm in 5e.

And, Rand hps for monsters so I can fudge is a pretty weak argument from my POV.

Standard hit points are not the norm. You can take it or roll, your choice. It's not even presented as an optional rule. It's baked in that you can roll, so rolling for hit points is as much the norm as just taking the average.
 

Hussar

Legend
Standard hit points are not the norm. You can take it or roll, your choice. It's not even presented as an optional rule. It's baked in that you can roll, so rolling for hit points is as much the norm as just taking the average.

Sorry, I misspoke. Standard HP/level are a norm, not the norm. The other option is, of course, rolling.

It's been so long since I actually rolled HP's, that I honestly forgot that some people still do this. Good grief, it's been almost ten years now for me. 4e and then 5e. Heck, even in 3e we typically took standard HP values.

Kinda like die rolling characters. Again, it's been so long since I've done that, I've kinda forgot that it's a thing that people do.

I wonder if there's any sort of correlation there. Between people who prefer larger degrees of randomness in their game and also prefer to fudge. IME, there is, but, that's just purely anecdotal.
 

I wonder if there's any sort of correlation there. Between people who prefer larger degrees of randomness in their game and also prefer to fudge. IME, there is, but, that's just purely anecdotal.

I doubt it. You could just as easily see correlation between people who prefer to let the die fall as they may, and also being against fudging.
 

Sadras

Legend
It's been so long since I actually rolled HP's, that I honestly forgot that some people still do this. Good grief, it's been almost ten years now for me. 4e and then 5e. Heck, even in 3e we typically took standard HP values.

Kinda like die rolling characters. Again, it's been so long since I've done that, I've kinda forgot that it's a thing that people do.

I would like to try it again, but it is not something my current table would relish, and I'm unwilling to flex my DM muscle within our social contract for that. However, with a new group of players it should be easy to incorporate.
 

Aldarc

Legend
That's a pretty good idea from a speed perspective and abstraction. What happens with DC's above 20? ( I know, not likely for all things in a room)
I was trying out his Index Card RPG system - which is essentially a stripped-down bare-naked skeleton D&D d20 system - and I can't recall those sort of DCs. I don't think it would be that hard though to use a 20 on a d20 and then use a d10 for the additional values.

There is another system mechanic that helps though: easy and hard. When something is "easy" in the encounter, then it is the encounter DC minus 3. When something is "hard" in the encounter, then it is the encounter DC plus 3. So you can distinguish between bosses and mooks through easy and hard.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I doubt it. You could just as easily see correlation between people who prefer to let the die fall as they may, and also being against fudging.

There's a clear correlation between both people who fudge and people who don't fudge, and disliking anchovies. Just ask around!
 

Les Moore

Explorer
Sorry, I misspoke. Standard HP/level are a norm, not the norm. The other option is, of course, rolling.

It's been so long since I actually rolled HP's, that I honestly forgot that some people still do this. Good grief, it's been almost ten years now for me. 4e and then 5e. Heck, even in 3e we typically took standard HP values.

Kinda like die rolling characters. Again, it's been so long since I've done that, I've kinda forgot that it's a thing that people do.

I wonder if there's any sort of correlation there. Between people who prefer larger degrees of randomness in their game and also prefer to fudge. IME, there is, but, that's just purely anecdotal.

Part of the point of the game, at least for us, is to "roll the bones". I guess what you do must be fun (?) but it wouldn't be the same without dice. Some
of us harken back to before the planet's crust cooled, and we used 4D6 as the basis for all rolls, in the early times, before polyhedrals were widely available.
Granted, it's just a game play style, but for some, many, still perhaps, a ritual one.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Part of the point of the game, at least for us, is to "roll the bones". I guess what you do must be fun (?) but it wouldn't be the same without dice. Some
of us harken back to before the planet's crust cooled, and we used 4D6 as the basis for all rolls, in the early times, before polyhedrals were widely available.
Granted, it's just a game play style, but for some, many, still perhaps, a ritual one.

That's where I am. I simply won't use point buy or array, nor will I use static hit points.
 

Les Moore

Explorer
I admit to being a bit of a whore to point-buy, who wants a dull, boring character? And I'll also accept or use any other mechanic which makes the game more fun.
But we just love to roll the dice, and the game just wouldn't be the game, without it.
 

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