5e needs a Faiths and Avatars style book - Page 12
Page 12 of 12 FirstFirst ... 23456789101112
Results 111 to 120 of 120
  1. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosmancer View Post
    I've tried googling this sort of information. There is rarely enough for me to feel satisfied that I "get" the deity and the temple structures around them.

    Sure, I can easily find that Corellon is the god of the elves, rules over war, magic, beauty, and singing, and once put put Gruumsh's eye in a battle. However, I've got no idea what his priests wear, are there holy days like commemorating the battle with Gruumsh? What do they do on that day? What is an appropriate offering to Corellon? What do his temples look like? Are there multiple levels of hierarchy in the temple?

    All that information is stuff that gets made up, and since I grew up in the Bible Belt it ends up looking like a lot of different flavors of Christian because when I'm on the spot and thinking "What does the church look like" I think of... well Churches.





    Counter Anecdote: I've never been in a 5e game that didn't include at least one cleric at some point. From that perspective they are far more popular than Fighters and Wizards.




    Personally, I would really like some of this sort of information to be made available, but I wonder since it would be too massive for a book if it could be something added to DnD Beyond or something. It would just be incredibly useful to have a compilation of all these deities and detailed suggestions for how the Temple structures work.
    This is where polytheism is being confused with Christianity. There is no "uniform" for a priest of Corellon, holy days depend on locality, there are no standardised rituals, and very little in the way of hierarchy. Each temple would have an autonomous high priest, and he/she would have a few acolytes. Appropriate offerings are "anything the god likes" so in the case of Corellon, singing, mostly (and all temples need cash for maintenance).

    It's not a case of "making information available" since this information does not exist in the first place. Go ahead and make it up, because nothing is going to be published to contradict you.

  2. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Farquhar View Post
    This is where polytheism is being confused with Christianity. There is no "uniform" for a priest of Corellon, holy days depend on locality, there are no standardised rituals, and very little in the way of hierarchy. Each temple would have an autonomous high priest, and he/she would have a few acolytes. Appropriate offerings are "anything the god likes" so in the case of Corellon, singing, mostly (and all temples need cash for maintenance).
    Well, if your right that this is the way Correllon's priesthood works, that seems like the perfect sort content for such a book would provide: "There are no standardised rituals to celebrate Correlon, etc. . . here's a couple examples of how Correlon is worshipped in the Dales, and here's how Corellon is worshipped (and has his name spelled) . . . "

    So, yeah. I think you're making the case for this book. It's just a shame for @gyor that we're not in the TSR era because then there would be a spot in the schedule for it. Because the only reason we won't see this book is the very simple "it doesn't fit in WotC's publishing strategy."

  3. #113
    Member
    Guide (Lvl 11)



    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Columbus, OH, USA
    Posts
    756
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Block Jer


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by Satyrn View Post
    Well, if your right that this is the way Correllon's priesthood works, that seems like the perfect sort content for such a book would provide: "There are no standardised rituals to celebrate Correlon, etc. . . here's a couple examples of how Correlon is worshipped in the Dales, and here's how Corellon is worshipped (and has his name spelled) . . . "

    So, yeah. I think you're making the case for this book. It's just a shame for @gyor that we're not in the TSR era because then there would be a spot in the schedule for it. Because the only reason we won't see this book is the very simple "it doesn't fit in WotC's publishing strategy."
    I mean, that book basically already exists:

    http://www.dmsguild.com/product/1756...vatars-2e?it=1

    Actually there are 3 of them total (because FR is chock-fulla-gods):

    http://www.dmsguild.com/product/1753...theons-2e?it=1

    http://www.dmsguild.com/product/1753..._0_45356_0_0_0

    The worldbuilding information about the religions of the Realms is all there and is just as good in 5e as it was in 2e. The timeline may have advanced but for most of the deities their religions shouldn't have changed much. What isn't there are kinds of stats for the gods that gyor was talking about, nor how the mechanics of divinity work in 5th edition, nor updates on who is a greater god vs. lesser god vs. demigod vs. whathaveyou.
    XP Satyrn, Cap'n Kobold gave XP for this post

  4. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Jer View Post
    What isn't there are kinds of stats for the gods that gyor was talking about, nor how the mechanics of divinity work in 5th edition, nor updates on who is a greater god vs. lesser god vs. demigod vs. whathaveyou.
    Oh, true. The threads gone on for long enough that I've kinda lost the, uh, thread of the conversation and forgot that gyor would like that stuff, too.
    XP Jer, gyor gave XP for this post

  5. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Satyrn View Post
    Well, if your right that this is the way Correllon's priesthood works, that seems like the perfect sort content for such a book would provide: "There are no standardised rituals to celebrate Correlon, etc. . . here's a couple examples of how Correlon is worshipped in the Dales, and here's how Corellon is worshipped (and has his name spelled) . . . "

    So, yeah. I think you're making the case for this book. It's just a shame for @gyor that we're not in the TSR era because then there would be a spot in the schedule for it. Because the only reason we won't see this book is the very simple "it doesn't fit in WotC's publishing strategy."
    You are completely missing the point. This doesn't just apply to Corellon - it applies to most of the FR gods. Hierarchies, uniforms, standardised liturgies etc are very much a feature of medieval Christianity. Polytheistic religions simply don't go in for that stuff. Add into that alignment: Chaotic gods would hate it, Neutral gods would be indifferent. Lawful gods might like it, but then you are still going to have dozens of different sects arguing over the correct shade of purple the high priest's robe should be.

  6. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Farquhar View Post
    You are completely missing the point. This doesn't just apply to Corellon - it applies to most of the FR gods. Hierarchies, uniforms, standardised liturgies etc are very much a feature of medieval Christianity. Polytheistic religions simply don't go in for that stuff. Add into that alignment: Chaotic gods would hate it, Neutral gods would be indifferent. Lawful gods might like it, but then you are still going to have dozens of different sects arguing over the correct shade of purple the high priest's robe should be.
    I got all that. I'm tellling you that all this means is that instead of the book presenting the religions as cohesive whole, it would do exactly what you're doing: telling the reader that the religions vary from sect to sect.

    Edit - . . . That in covering the worship of Chaotic gods, why they'd hate it, how the religion of the neutral gods might take shape, etc.

    That is, you're saying there's lots about these religions that differs from how it works in the real world. That stuff you're talking is the perfect content for the book, and yet you're presenting it as an argument against such a book.
    Last edited by Satyrn; Tuesday, 3rd July, 2018 at 08:52 PM.
    XP dave2008, Irennan gave XP for this post

  7. #117
    Member
    Pit Fiend (Lvl 26)

    Hussar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Fukuoka, Japan
    Posts
    21,162
    Reviews
    Read 1 Reviews

    Block Hussar


    Friend+
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Farquhar View Post
    This is where polytheism is being confused with Christianity. There is no "uniform" for a priest of Corellon, holy days depend on locality, there are no standardised rituals, and very little in the way of hierarchy. Each temple would have an autonomous high priest, and he/she would have a few acolytes. Appropriate offerings are "anything the god likes" so in the case of Corellon, singing, mostly (and all temples need cash for maintenance).

    It's not a case of "making information available" since this information does not exist in the first place. Go ahead and make it up, because nothing is going to be published to contradict you.
    Wait, what?

    I live in a polytheistic country - Japan. And, I'm going to tell you right now that there ARE standardized rituals, and uniforms for priests and standardized holy days in Shinto. I'm not sure what kind of polytheism you are thinking of, but, most religions, whether mono or polytheistic, have pretty standardized rituals and holy days and easily recognizable priesthoods.
    XP dave2008, Jer, SkidAce, gyor, Chaosmancer gave XP for this post

  8. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Hussar View Post
    Wait, what?

    I live in a polytheistic country - Japan. And, I'm going to tell you right now that there ARE standardized rituals, and uniforms for priests and standardized holy days in Shinto. I'm not sure what kind of polytheism you are thinking of, but, most religions, whether mono or polytheistic, have pretty standardized rituals and holy days and easily recognizable priesthoods.
    Wicca too depending on domination, some traditionalists for example do rituals sky clad.

  9. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Farquhar View Post
    You are completely missing the point. This doesn't just apply to Corellon - it applies to most of the FR gods. Hierarchies, uniforms, standardised liturgies etc are very much a feature of medieval Christianity. Polytheistic religions simply don't go in for that stuff. Add into that alignment: Chaotic gods would hate it, Neutral gods would be indifferent. Lawful gods might like it, but then you are still going to have dozens of different sects arguing over the correct shade of purple the high priest's robe should be.

    I would like to add that we are sort of missing the 500 lbs gorilla in the room.

    In most DnD settings the gods are present in the people's lives, as in people can talk to them.


    Sure, in ancient Rome you might have had people doing radically different things to appease Zeus. However, you are highly unlikely to find priests of "Corellon the Blood-mongerer" who say that Corellon believes in murdering everyone who isn't an elf. That isn't what that diety is about, and they would send retribution and signs against people misusing their names.


    And yeah, of course they aren't going to be monolithic. Chaotic gods will have really loose rules, lawful gods might have sects who argue over whether you lead the procession with your left foot or your right foot, but since there are standard signs for all the gods, and standard portfolios for all the gods in DnD, then they are pretty heavily implying there is some connection between the different sects.

    To put it more bluntly "they are not standardized" =/= "there are no rules or commonalities"
    XP dave2008, Cap'n Kobold, gyor gave XP for this post

  10. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Hussar View Post
    Wait, what?

    I live in a polytheistic country - Japan. And, I'm going to tell you right now that there ARE standardized rituals, and uniforms for priests and standardized holy days in Shinto. I'm not sure what kind of polytheism you are thinking of, but, most religions, whether mono or polytheistic, have pretty standardized rituals and holy days and easily recognizable priesthoods.
    I'm pretty sure it's the 2 dimensional understanding of religion during the Roman Empire.

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Similar Threads

  1. Faiths of Eberron (book approval)
    By Erekose13 in forum Living Eberron
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Wednesday, 1st August, 2007, 01:19 PM
  2. Greyhawk: Deities in "Faiths & Avatars" fomat?
    By Arnwyn in forum *General Roleplaying Games Discussion
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Monday, 12th July, 2004, 01:31 PM
  3. Comic-style avatars - any link?
    By Flyspeck23 in forum Meta
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: Monday, 16th February, 2004, 07:11 PM
  4. Comic-style avatars - any link?
    By Flyspeck23 in forum *General Roleplaying Games Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Thursday, 12th February, 2004, 02:27 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •