D&D 5E How To Darksun

Ancalagon said:

I may have missed it, but you mentioned healing surges... how would you handle 5e 's very generous natural healing?

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Change overnight healing and the HD mechanic to a single HD regained only. Dump the 6 to 8 encounters expectation.

Remathilis said:

This does beg the question: if a setting requires major revision to the 5e game mechanics to run (so much so that whole races and classes must be rewritten) than is there any advantage to running it in 5e rather than running it in its original edition?

Put another way; does the benefits of a new edition outweigh the large amount of new stuff you have to do to make it mimic the old edition's assumptions?

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For me, I find 5E a much better chassis to build off than 2E.

Really the only thing I need is a decent psionics system that is something other than daily spells by another name. For me, ideally that would be a short rest recharge class more heavily focused on a suite of thematic powers.

Otherwise I like templars as sorceror king pact warlocks, elemental priests as land druid with modified spell lists, etc.

But you bet your butts Half Giants would be large. +4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex, disadvantage vs Charm saves, double weapon breakage chance, etc. None of this large build nonsense lol. If you can't pick up a kank, what's the point?

Remathilis said:

This does beg the question: if a setting requires major revision to the 5e game mechanics to run (so much so that whole races and classes must be rewritten) than is there any advantage to running it in 5e rather than running it in its original edition?

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Yes. The mechanics of 5E work much better than the mechanics of 2E.

To do Dark Sun well in 5E, you need to do what they did when Dark Sun was first released: Build a specialized campaign setting. If you really like the vision, it is worth the effort.

I would:

1.) Eliminate the cleric and paladin classes.
2.) Add a Templar class that is similar to the cleric, but designed to fit the theme.
3.) Create 2 psionics class (Psion and Psionic Warrior). I would also create a few additional subclasses, including a Sorcerer King Warlock Pact, a Preserver Wizard, and an Elemental Druid.
4.) Add the Dark Sun specific races.
5.) Add a resource tracking system that expands rules for dehydration, starvation and exposure. These are essential elements of Dark Sun and this is the only setting where I would even tolerate, much less recommend, them.
6.) Add defiling as the default when using magic, and create restrictions on magic when someone preserves.
7.) Rewrite the entire history of Athas to introduce new storylines, Sorcerer Kings, etc... The old materials were so 'railroad' that anyone that is a fan of the setting knows too much.

I'd also use the old monster books to add abilities to existing monsters to give me Dark Sun threats.

jgsugden said:

Yes. The mechanics of 5E work much better than the mechanics of 2E.

To do Dark Sun well in 5E, you need to do what they did when Dark Sun was first released: Build a specialized campaign setting. If you really like the vision, it is worth the effort.

I would:

1.) Eliminate the cleric and paladin classes.
2.) Add a Templar class that is similar to the cleric, but designed to fit the theme.
3.) Create 2 psionics class (Psion and Psionic Warrior). I would also create a few additional subclasses, including a Sorcerer King Warlock Pact, a Preserver Wizard, and an Elemental Druid.
4.) Add the Dark Sun specific races.
5.) Add a resource tracking system that expands rules for dehydration, starvation and exposure. These are essential elements of Dark Sun and this is the only setting where I would even tolerate, much less recommend, them.
6.) Add defiling as the default when using magic, and create restrictions on magic when someone preserves.
7.) Rewrite the entire history of Athas to introduce new storylines, Sorcerer Kings, etc... The old materials were so 'railroad' that anyone that is a fan of the setting knows too much.

I'd also use the old monster books to add abilities to existing monsters to give me Dark Sun threats.

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But is that list easier than, say, reversing 2e's AC system? The typical Dark Sun revision list like yours above could easily fill at least two books without even getting into the gazetteer-style info.

I tried my own hand at converting Masque of the Red Death from 2e to 5e. In the end, it was a fools errand; the amount of things that needed removing, rewriting, and converting was overwhelming. If I was to run MotRD, I'd probably just use the 2e books and tweak the rules. I can't say I see Dark Sun as any simpler to do.

Without offending the psionic-is-not-magic! crowd, the problem of converting high fantasy D&D to a darker sword and sorcery setting like Darksun isn't too much the ability to cast spells, or having spell slots; its the spell lists themselves.

Many D&D spells can easily be flavoured as psionic powers, and in the absence of a psion or a mystic class, classes like the bard, ranger and paladin (and arcane trickster and eldritch knight) readily serve as psionic user classes. Use the spell point variant for a more AD&D 2e psionic feel.

We started a Darksun game a while ago and I wanted to play a psionicist, and the bard provided a good platform for it. Take vicious mockery and rename "ego whip" and it already feels Darksun-y. Although we didn't get that far, you could easily cull and mix 5e D&D spells in a psionic spell list for bards, rangers, paladins, or even warlock, to select from.

Just like Darksun's designers weren't afraid to dramatically alter the fluff of 2e AD&D classes, we shouldn't be afraid to reflavour existing classes fluff while keeping the mechanics of the class itself. A paladin soul knife psionic-warrior enhancing its blades with psychic energy, healing powers and a knack for resisting diseases? Sounds cool to me.

TL;DR: classes as chassis work perfectly for Darksun. Change fluff and spell lists (and if you really want to go that far, make class archetypes) and transform your vanilla D&D to Darksun-flavoured goodness.

Remathilis said:

But is that list easier than, say, reversing 2e's AC system? The typical Dark Sun revision list like yours above could easily fill at least two books without even getting into the gazetteer-style info.

I tried my own hand at converting Masque of the Red Death from 2e to 5e. In the end, it was a fools errand; the amount of things that needed removing, rewriting, and converting was overwhelming. If I was to run MotRD, I'd probably just use the 2e books and tweak the rules. I can't say I see Dark Sun as any simpler to do.

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Go grab some friends and have a nostalgic night: Run a one session 2E game for them. Tell them to build 500,000 EXP 2E characters. When you're done, you can come back and hang your head in shame for thinking it would be easier to run it in 2E.

jgsugden said:

Go grab some friends and have a nostalgic night: Run a one session 2E game for them. Tell them to build 500,000 EXP 2E characters. When you're done, you can come back and hang your head in shame for thinking it would be easier to run it in 2E.

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Well yeah, you're suggesting an xp budget over 20th level in a low magic setting! 5e breaks down at that level! Around 5th level, the complexity is high, but probably on par with all the house rules I'd need to run D&D 5e in a 1890's Victorian horror setting.

jgsugden said:

Yes. The mechanics of 5E work much better than the mechanics of 2E.

To do Dark Sun well in 5E, you need to do what they did when Dark Sun was first released: Build a specialized campaign setting. If you really like the vision, it is worth the effort.

I would:

1.) Eliminate the cleric and paladin classes.
2.) Add a Templar class that is similar to the cleric, but designed to fit the theme.
3.) Create 2 psionics class (Psion and Psionic Warrior). I would also create a few additional subclasses, including a Sorcerer King Warlock Pact, a Preserver Wizard, and an Elemental Druid.
4.) Add the Dark Sun specific races.
5.) Add a resource tracking system that expands rules for dehydration, starvation and exposure. These are essential elements of Dark Sun and this is the only setting where I would even tolerate, much less recommend, them.
6.) Add defiling as the default when using magic, and create restrictions on magic when someone preserves.
7.) Rewrite the entire history of Athas to introduce new storylines, Sorcerer Kings, etc... The old materials were so 'railroad' that anyone that is a fan of the setting knows too much.

I'd also use the old monster books to add abilities to existing monsters to give me Dark Sun threats.

Click to expand...

1 & 2.) I'd probably keep clerics and use elemental domains and perhaps a sorcerer king domain (or just pick one of the current domains to represent the "templar" domain) since they still had clerics in dark sun, they just didn't gain their powers from gods.

3 and 6.) I wouldn't worry about creating a preserver subclass, I'd make preserving the default with defiling as something that arcane casters can do to amp up their magic. It would be a feature of the setting, not requiring an expenditure of resources to learn, just something that an arcane caster can do, a temptation that is always whispering to the wizard.

4.) I'd definitely like to see some of those dark sun races brought back into 5e. I'd love to see a thri-kreen race, I've seen some good ones online. Many of the PHB races could still be used though I would restrict some of them. I know some people hate restrictions, but I like that some races just weren't available due to the purge of the non-human races. No gnomes, no half-orcs, for me it changes the feel of the setting knowing that these races are unavailable due to the harsh history of the setting.

Remathilis said:

Well yeah, you're suggesting an xp budget over 20th level in a low magic setting! 5e breaks down at that level! Around 5th level, the complexity is high, but probably on par with all the house rules I'd need to run D&D 5e in a 1890's Victorian horror setting.

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Try again. In 2nd edition, 500,000 is 11th level wizard, 9th level paladin, 10th level fighter, 12th level druid, etc... If you don't remember that, you're not prepared for the skill systems, death immeditely at zero, THAC0, non-dynamic saves, thief skill points, instadeath spells, varied attacks per round, initiative system, etc.... Going from 5E to 2E is a bit like going from a 2015 Honda Civic to a Mule. The Mule ws nice when it was ll you had, but now....

I did a somewhat quick and dirty conversion of Dark Sun recently. I kept a lot of the 5e stuff intact, just made some adjustments to the main races, very few adjustments to the classes, and cut like two things: the drow and gnomes. Half-orcs are basically Muls with a few adjustments. I kept the subraces the same, they just don't really look different. Instead of taking away, I would add a thing or two, depending on the race. I kept all classes intact, including the bard (as written in the PHB), paladin (sacrilege!), warlock, and sorcerer.

The only things I had to spend any real time on were the new races, elemental domains, and I made a Gladiator subclass for the Fighter. Even then, I used a version of Zardnaar's Half-Giant, and pieced together a thri-kreen from a few different sources.

I didn't try to reinvent the wheel here, I just wanted something usable, fun, and didn't require a lot of hammering at the ruleset of 5e. It's certainly not what every fan wants, but I like it and I plan on using it until something more official drops on us. And I still might use some of it if I don't like the official stuff!