Gritty Campaigns. How you play one?

the Jester said:

• Let the dice fall where they may.
• Don't intervene to save pcs who die.
• Monsters fight to win instead of fighting to die.
• This includes hitting downed pcs when appropriate.
• If you want a map of the dungeon, map; otherwise, prepare to die lost.
• Force the players to rely on their notes and memories rather than filling in gaps in their knowledge that they wouldn't reasonably remember.
• Use 'left' and 'right' instead of cardinal directions unless someone has the Keen Mind feat.
• No npcs who can save your bacon. If you want to raise a dead pc, find a pc to do it.
• Enemies should be proactive and take measures to defeat their foes, including pcs.
• Challenges should vary in nature ("I'm perfectly prepared to fight monsters, but this snow storm is killing me!")

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I find it funny that "gritty" is now defined as not cheating on the players' behalf lol. That's not gritty. That's simply being an impartial and fair DM.

Psikerlord# said:

Gritty and default 5e are polar opposites. In order to make 5e gritty, you have to change so many things, you aren't playing 5e anymore. Better to simply use a system that is gritty to begin with imo. WFRP 4e might be the ticket.

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Not true at all. See my post earlier. I prefer a more gritty system, and 5e works just fine. The only rule I've really changed is the healing rate and that's pretty much it. 5e does grit well if you want to DM it that way.

GlassJaw said:

if you want to debate whether 5e is a viable system to use for a G&G campaign.

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Oh, there's no need for debate.
Thanks to DM Empowerment, 5e is a viable system for any use. It may not be recognizable when you're done ignoring, over-ruling, & modding it, but it'll be viable.

GlassJaw said:

If you've done any work on this, I would definitely like to see it!

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Sadly, no, just ideas. If I were to start with the D&D versions of arcane magic - bookish wizardry, warlock pacts, inborn sorcery - I'd break it down with each having a cost or danger: Wizards become obsessive (indeed, must be obsessive to finish their training successfully) and go insane; warlocks imperil their souls and risk being possessed permanently; sorcerers slowly transform into their supernatural ancestor.

The stumbling block is a good spiraling mechanic for incremental loss of control of your character.

Level cap at 10. Next question?

Sacrosanct said:

Not true at all. See my post earlier. I prefer a more gritty system, and 5e works just fine. The only rule I've really changed is the healing rate and that's pretty much it. 5e does grit well if you want to DM it that way.

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Read your post. To be fair, you do way more than just change healing. In fact you seem to make your game a low magic one. Which I heartily approve of. And which (imo) means it aint 5e anymore.

I just DMed a 5e adventure, maybe will make a campaign. The players seemed to like it and what I did was basically DM 1e.

There was not a single skill check. There were puzzles but the players had to solve it, not the characters via checks.

Only the rogue could pick locks.

The Rogue had to surrender 10% of his share of the treasure to the thieve's guild. No one else had to.

No damage dealing cantrips.

No Healing Word

No races with tails, no races that can fly or live underwater

Characters were dropping like flies in combat due to players making tactical errors, A couple of skeletons almost took out four 1st lvl characters because the players made one bad move after another. There was a puzzle situation where it was solve it or die, and since it was toward the end of the session I let a player die. The rest survived.

Any information the party needed was transmitted via NPC, no history checks. After they messed up in the first couple of encounters and two were at near death they entered a room which was a TPK trap: A chained up coffin with a mirror and stake next to it, and someone pounding from the inside. If they opened it they were going to encounter a Vampire at 1st level and all the powers the MM gives vampires. Two wanted to open it but two other players realized I was not playing by the 5e concept of fair or CR.

There was no comedy at all. If I continue with these players I will introduce encumbrance, and no just magically getting the PHB and choosing whatever spell you want. They will have to find new spells. Probably components too. At the end everyone said they enjoyed the session and want to do more.

An idea that occurs to me (bear in mind that this are off the top of my head and hasn't been fully thought through let alone tested in any way whatsoever) is to make healing spells rituals that can't be used in the midst of combat.

It would certainly make individual combats scarier.

You'd probably have to get rid of healing potions too. Or as was suggested upthread make then give only temp HP that are used last rather than first.

Psikerlord# said:

Read your post. To be fair, you do way more than just change healing.

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I just went and reread Sacrosanct's post, and- no, really, it seems like the only thing he changes rules-wise is the healing. With occasional critical effects added in.

Psikerlord# said:

In fact you seem to make your game a low magic one. Which I heartily approve of. And which (imo) means it aint 5e anymore.

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Your opinion is just wrong here. Just because someone plays 5e differently than you doesn't make it not-5e. My game is unmistakably 5e, but absolutely low magic. Saying it can't be 5e because of low magic incidence is expressing your playstyle preference in a "one true way" fashion, not addressing a fundamental aspect of the game.

My default 5e campaign is plenty gritty. It’s all about tone and stakes.

Not sure my ideas are truly gritty but I do follow these principles

1. Only slow healing unless magic is involved. Like PC level hit points recovered per 8 hours of rest in any 24 hour period.
2. Challenges that require good play or which often lead to death.
3. Not all challenges are beatable. Yes dungeons are fairly level appropriate but I use the 1e concept of outdoor encounters.
4. Wandering monsters rolled for regularly.
5. Player/Character fear which leads to caution and being very prepared.
6. Combat tactics, proper use of terrain, etc...

For me that is regular D&D but I guess it's gotten more gritty over time.

We use critical hits and fumbles in conjunction with weapons skills. Without the appropriate skill a natural 20 is a critical which does 2x damage, a 1 is a fumble. With an appropriate skill 20- the skill level naturally rolled is a critical. If a 1 is rolled you roll a d10 if the result is your skill level or less the fumble is avoided. This has greatly sped up combat and made it very nasty.

Without magic healing is slow. The amount of time required to heal is the highest damage hit plus the total of every other hit. If Joe Macestopper is hit three times for 10, 15 and 20, without magic it will take Joe 22 days of rest to heal.

Arcane magic used to heal requires either one spell or item charge per wound, they cannot be stacked. Any damage not healed by the spell or item has to be healed with rest.

If you enter the wilds you never know what you might run into.

Humanoid monsters use skills the same as characters do.

Civilized places and laws, rules and regulations. They are enforced. Act accordingly.