I've been doing it successfully for years. I just don't tell players what they don't know. I change up monster stats all the time. I once had a player complain that a certain monster could not do what it was doing. My answer "Are you going to trust some dusty old tomes you read in a library or are you going to trust your eyes?" You see only what I tell the players is reality.
This seems presumptuous, though disputing your claim opens up further conversation that I doubt would be particularly productive for our mutual purposes here.
You are arguing that metagaming can be fun. I'm saying good for you.
Thank you, though I do think that you implying that Fate is a "metagame style rpg" comes across as belittling. But I am also arguing that metagaming is a core and inescapable part of gaming.* There are metagaming mechanics that you find acceptable for your gaming preference and can rationalize (e.g., HP, saving throws, etc.) and there are those that you cannot or disrupt your gaming preferences (e.g., fate points). This is why I remarked to Lanefan that this conversation for me is a matter of "picking your metagaming poison" rather than finding games without metagaming or metagaming mechanics.
* For a more mainstream example of metagaming as part of gameplay, see Basketball. Rules on fouls exist per original intent to discourage and minimize "foul play" from the players, but they are now a fundamental part of how basketball is played at all levels of organized play. You foul to control the tempo of play, particularly the last minutes of the game. You foul to setup plays. You foul to disrupt critical plays. You rotate players to manage your available number of fouls. "Hack-a-Shaq" even became a metagame strategy of intentionally fouling players who routinely make terrible free throw shots. If you change the rules or mechanics, then metagaming does not stop, new metas form around the new norm, which we see time and time again in basketball and other games. To paraphrase the esteemed Jeff Golblum: "
the metagame finds a way."
My way of dealing with the example of the outlaw is just rolling for it. In this town, what are the odds are famous outlaw will be recognized. Just roll for the various patrons. So yes, it is out of the players hands. Some don't like that. But it really is true that the character if he is hiding out doesn't want to be detected OR the character can let that out of the bag himself intentionally.
I am one of those people. Rolling for it seems like too much work for less payoff. Why not make the story happen now? As a GM it's about having the character make interesting choices at interesting times rather than as a randomized event potentially detached from interesting consequences.
On this there can be no doubt. I hope I have not in anyway given the impression that I don't agree that people have different tastes and different experiences.
Of course. It may be beneficial for discussion for you to provide your sense for what constitutes metagaming mechanics. We may still disagree or see this as a double-standard -- this may not be fair for your goals in this thread, but it is unavoidable for such discussions -- but we may have a better sense of where you are coming from. Meanwhile, I will provide some additional suggestions for other systems you may want to check out. I do not know whether you will find their mechanics as metagaming or not, but they are worth looking into for your purposes.
Dungeon World: It is a more narrative/fiction-first approach to D&D-style fantasy. It's designed to discourage the button-pushing approach of D&D play: "When entering the room, I roll for Perception." Players in DW describe their actions and reactions to the GM's narrative framing (i.e., "this happens, what do you do?") which may trigger "moves" that the player can perform (e.g., hack and slash, defy danger, spout lore, etc.). But it is easily hackable. Bonds may be a bit too metagamey for you, but they also be appropriate for your metagame preferences.
Black Hack: It has been receiving quite a bit of praise for its rules simplicity and elegance, though I have not yet had a chance to play it.
The Black Hack is a super-streamlined roleplaying game that uses the Original 1970s Fantasy Roleplaying Game as a base, and could well be the most straightforward modern OSR compatible clone available. If speed of play and character creation, compatibility, and simple - yet elegant rules are what you yearn for. Look no further!
The Black Hack is a fast playing game and the rules can be picked up in minutes. The full rules fit in a single 20 page A5 book!
Tiny Dungeon: It is a simple rules lite d6 D&D OSR style game.
Powered by the TinyD6 engine, with streamlined mechanics that utilize only one to three single six-sided dice on every action, characters that can be written 3x5 notecard, and easy to understand and teach rules, Tiny Dungeon 2e is great for all groups, ages, and experience levels!
Index Card RPG: It is a d20 D&D stripped-down naked. Fast-paced and easy to play. It almost reduces the game to ability scores and loot, including spells. Distinct dice for distinct purposes. Classes are more akin to guidelines of recommended gear, milestone rewards, and abilities. But it is also
super easy to hack.
