Subtle Spell or Twinned Spell Metamagic Spell Combos
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  1. #1
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    Subtle Spell or Twinned Spell Metamagic Spell Combos

    I'm making a Warlock-3/Sorcerer-X character for AL play. Having played Warlocs before, I like spamming the Agonizing E-Blast combo for most combat situations, which makes Quickened Spell my first choice for metamagic. So, what should I make my second choice?

    An important aspect of this character is that his Warlock spells make him angry/reckless so I want his Sorcerer spells to buff & control or benefit RP.

    The optimization guides tell me I should choose Twinned Spell.
    Spells for buff/control Sorcerer if I choose Twinned Spell:
    2nd level--Invisibility & Hold Person. Good options for defense & offense.
    3rd level--Haste. Other good options unrelated to this metamagic are Fireball and Counterspell.
    4th level--Greater Invisibility.
    Are these the good/safe choices for a buff/control Sorcerer?

    On the other hand, I really like RP potential of Subtle Spell if I can make it work without sub-optimizing too much.
    Spells for a RP Sorcerer if I choose Subtle Spell:
    1st level--Disguise Self for mid-conversation costume change to hide the stole McGuffin.
    2nd level--Detect Thoughts & Suggestion. Prevents the social stigma of messing with a person's mind in public.
    3rd level--I don't see any Subtle Spell combos here, unless you want to control a crowd with Hypnotic Pattern or Major Image without letting anyone know who's doing it. But, like I said above, there are good options unrelated to the metamagic.
    4th level--Dominate Beast would be fun to take a mounted knight for a bucking bronco ride without him knowing what happened.
    Do you think these combos work? Are there others? Are they worth the price of losing Twinned Spell?

    FWIW, here is more info on the character:
    An-Hellardo, Half-elf starting at Warlock-3/Sorcerer-1 using DM Rewards.
    Gives the initial impression of a mild-mannered Sage but his fiend Pact with Tiamat causes him to go crazy and bloodthirsty in combat, especially when using Warlock powers like Hellish Rebuke, Hex, Command, and especially Dark One's Blessing. Invocations are Agonizing Blast & Eyes of the Rune Keeper.
    With his Pack of the Chain boon, he has a Pseudodragon familiar named Clawswitz who tries to steer him away from his destructive tendencies. He has Gold Dragon ancestry so he will use the rest of his levels as a Dragon Sorcerer. Since he was an orphan with no knowledge of where he came from, he will continue to research draconic history to figure out his bloodline.
    Str: 10; Dex: 16; Con: 14; Int: 12; Wis: 8; Chr: 16. Boost Chr at Sorc-4 and Sorc-8.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Subtle-cast L3 Fear. The enemy / audience does not know what they are afraid of, but it's scary.
    If possible, time it to BBEG's grand entrance so all his minions run away from him and spoil his scene. If not, set off a stampede of the lemmings.
    With careful positioning, frighten the front ranks of the enemy army, demand they surrender, and watch that ripple rearwards. Now you and your allies have a huge haul of prisoners and BBEG can only fume from a distance.
    XP Hopsong gave XP for this post

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
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    Subtle Hex to give someone disadvantage on Wisdom or Charisma checks to help you deceive them (or sneak past them) or talk them into something.
    XP Hopsong gave XP for this post

  4. #4
    Subtle an Enemies Abound onto someone for hilarious shenanigans where ever you are.

  5. #5
    Don't worry. You won't be suboptimal

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Washington State, USA
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    389
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopsong View Post
    I'm making a Warlock-3/Sorcerer-X character for AL play. Having played Warlocs before, I like spamming the Agonizing E-Blast combo for most combat situations, which makes Quickened Spell my first choice for metamagic. So, what should I make my second choice?

    An important aspect of this character is that his Warlock spells make him angry/reckless so I want his Sorcerer spells to buff & control or benefit RP.

    The optimization guides tell me I should choose Twinned Spell.
    Spells for buff/control Sorcerer if I choose Twinned Spell:
    2nd level--Invisibility & Hold Person. Good options for defense & offense.
    3rd level--Haste. Other good options unrelated to this metamagic are Fireball and Counterspell.
    4th level--Greater Invisibility.
    Are these the good/safe choices for a buff/control Sorcerer?

    On the other hand, I really like RP potential of Subtle Spell if I can make it work without sub-optimizing too much.
    Spells for a RP Sorcerer if I choose Subtle Spell:
    1st level--Disguise Self for mid-conversation costume change to hide the stole McGuffin.
    2nd level--Detect Thoughts & Suggestion. Prevents the social stigma of messing with a person's mind in public.
    3rd level--I don't see any Subtle Spell combos here, unless you want to control a crowd with Hypnotic Pattern or Major Image without letting anyone know who's doing it. But, like I said above, there are good options unrelated to the metamagic.
    4th level--Dominate Beast would be fun to take a mounted knight for a bucking bronco ride without him knowing what happened.
    Do you think these combos work? Are there others? Are they worth the price of losing Twinned Spell?
    Yes, those look like good twinned spell choices. Some other good ones:
    2nd level -- blindness/deafness, suggestion.
    4th level -- banishment, polymorph.

    For subtle spell, charm person is another good one. Subtle Misty Step or Dimension Door can be a good escape hatch if you get gagged/silenced/grappled.

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