Pathfinder 2 Character Sheet #2: Kyra, Human Cleric

Tony Vargas · Jul 13, 2018

TwoSix said:
I feel more like its too much of a "graphic design for other graphic designers". The constant rectangles and the blocky font are giving it too much of the "antiseptic" vibe that caused such consternation in 4e. You want the info the be usable, but you want a little messiness in the printed book to make reading the book feel more like exploration and less like research.

Rule book is in large part a reference manual, it'd be nice to have it actually work as one, IMHO.

(Yeah, I get that some product lines (WoD) at some times (90s) did super-well by being very cover-to-cover readable, and virtually worthless as actual rulebooks. )

TwoSix · Jul 13, 2018

Tony Vargas said:
Rule book is in large part a reference manual, it'd be nice to have it actually work as one, IMHO.

(Yeah, I get that some product lines (WoD) at some times (90s) did super-well by being very cover-to-cover readable, and virtually worthless as actual rulebooks. )

Well, this is still only the playtest, I feel like they'll take another aesthetic pass before actual release. I'm just throwing it out there that a small loss in utility is worthwhile if there's a large gain in the aesthetic pleasure of actually using the book.

Jer · Jul 13, 2018

TwoSix said:
I feel more like its too much of a "graphic design for other graphic designers". The constant rectangles and the blocky font are giving it too much of the "antiseptic" vibe that caused such consternation in 4e. You want the info the be usable, but you want a little messiness in the printed book to make reading the book feel more like exploration and less like research.

And see, this is exactly what I don't want in a character sheet (or a monster write-up for that matter). I want everything laid out clearly and explicitly - if I have to spend time hunting around to find things in play I'm going to get frustrated instead of having fun. Especially if I find the thing that I knew was there two rounds after it was needed.

Bill Elmer · Jul 13, 2018

The Human Target said:
Waiting around while someone detects magic over and over again square by square seems like the definition of tedious.

By "Option" I meant in addition to, not instead of.

jhallum · Jul 13, 2018

Blue said:
In this and the Alchemist yesterday I see a lot of +1 bonuses. Really, I don't want to bother with +1. Either make a bonus meaningful or eliminate it and the rules/time/effort/tracking load that comes with it.

I'm the opposite, give me bonuses, none of this advantage business. I want more fine grained control than adding a dice or two.

nightspaladin · Jul 13, 2018

Mark Craddock said:
I get a DnD 4E vibe from the breakdown of the Feats, Powers, and Spells. I don't think it's actually that close, but I still feel it.

These previews have really helped me understand it's not the game for me. I appreciate that and hope it helps other find it for them.

I'm getting a very 4e vibe to pf2. Fighters with combo attacks, paladins with powers and not spells. Rangers as martial only. Everything defined as a distinct action and action economy a big part of the math. The key wording of everything....

Now that being said... It's awesome. I loved 4e. Really really like 5e as a simple throwback to 2e in ways. But a crunchy tactical game is awesome..

Staffan · Jul 13, 2018

Tony Vargas said:
Rule book is in large part a reference manual, it'd be nice to have it actually work as one, IMHO.

(Yeah, I get that some product lines (WoD) at some times (90s) did super-well by being very cover-to-cover readable, and virtually worthless as actual rulebooks. )

On the board game side, Fantasy Flight is doing pretty well with having two rule books included in most games (at least the heavier ones): one learn-to-play book that explains what the game is all about and how it's played, and another rules reference that nails things down in a far more rigorous fashion. I don't know how well that would work in RPGs though.

Blue · Jul 13, 2018

jhallum said:
I'm the opposite, give me bonuses, none of this advantage business. I want more fine grained control than adding a dice or two.

Then this seems a good fit at your table, and many more. Enjoy!

We've both got valid approaches, and the good thing about our abundance of games out there is choice and the chance to fid your specific fit.

Though you did miss the mark slightly - my preferred d20 is 13th Age, so no advantage for me. Instead, it's +2s, but a lot fewer of them to keep track of. I value speed in combat over the fine granularity - but that's no universal truth, the precise control of this also makes many happy.

In other words, all good!

Charlaquin · Jul 13, 2018

Count me in the pro-practical design camp. I absolutely love the little d20 symbol next to the bonuses for things. I regularly have players ask me what die they have to roll for a [whatever] check, despite regular reminders that attacks, checks, and saves always use the d20. Having a symbol right next to the bonus, so it can be read as “Athletics: d20 +3” or whatever is absolutely brilliant.

Tony Vargas · Jul 13, 2018

Staffan said:
On the board game side, Fantasy Flight is doing pretty well with having two rule books included in most games (at least the heavier ones): one learn-to-play book that explains what the game is all about and how it's played, and another rules reference that nails things down in a far more rigorous fashion. I don't know how well that would work in RPGs though.

It rings a bell, like some game or starter set has done it sometime...

...maybe it wouldn't be great for D&D, because of shelf-presence... well, and because 5e's style of rulings-over-rules and make-the-game-your-own all but precludes making reference to the starting-point rules text in that fashion. But, maybe an AL Rules Manual? Maybe an App? ...

...of course, Pathfinder's fan base is very experienced & savy, so they wouldn't really need the former sort of book, and they're used to not having the latter... so status quo, all the way?

Pathfinder 2 Character Sheet #2: Kyra, Human Cleric

Tony Vargas

Legend

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer

Jer

Legend

Bill Elmer

First Post

jhallum

Explorer

nightspaladin

Explorer

Staffan

Legend

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)

Tony Vargas

Legend

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