D&D 5E [5E] Shadow Monk multiclass options - Warlock, Gloom Stalker, or neither?

RogueJK

It's not "Rouge"... That's makeup.
I have a Variant Human Shadow Monk with the following stats: 10 18 14 8 16 13 and the Mobile Feat.

It has a couple of deficiencies, that I'd like to plan towards correcting in the future:
1) Lack of innate darkvision. For someone who specializes in skulking around in dark areas, this is a problem. I can cast Darkvision on myself for 2 Ki, but that's taking away from other Ki-driven abilities.
2) Low-ish damage. More attacks, but middling damage, compared to stouter melee fighters, sneak-attacking rogues, and spell slingers. This gap will only increase in the mid-levels.

I'd also like to add a bit of extra out of combat utility, if possible.



It seems I have three main options:

A) Multiclass into Warlock for 2 levels after Monk 6. (This seems to be the "default choice" for most Shadow Monks.)
+ Low-level patron bonus(es).
+ 2 cantrips.
+ Hex. Bonus damage on every hit and enemy disadvantage, but requires concentration.
+ Several additional 1st level spells known.
+ Spells refresh on a Short Rest.
+ Devil's Sight. Long range darkvision. Can even see in my magical darkness, although I won't be slinging that around very much, since it hampers the rest of the party too.
+ Additional invocation. I'm thinking at-will Alter Self for out of combat disguising and trickery. Or at-will Silent Image, which combined with my Shadow Monk at-will Minor Illusion can produce moving illusions with sound for out of combat utility.
- Tougher option to role-play into, as I'd need to find the in-story opportunity to make a pact with a patron.
- Only 13 Charisma, so no Eldritch Blast. I'd have to stick to utility spells and cantrips that don't rely on attacks or saves.
- Delays Monk progression for 2 levels.
- Doesn't come online until level 8.



B) Multiclass into Ranger - Gloom Stalker for 3 levels after Monk 6. (I'd prefer the Revised Ranger, but I haven't talked to the DM yet to see if that's an option.)
+ Favored Enemy and Fighting Style. I'm thinking Humanoids and Dueling.
+ Hunter's Mark, for Hex-like extra damage every hit, although without Hex's accompanying disadvantage.
+ Couple of additional 1st level spells known.
+ Initiative bonus.
+ One additional skill proficiency. (Ranger is one of the only multiclass options that grants this.)
+ Extra utility with tracking, terrain, awareness, etc.
+ Extra attack in 1st round of every combat, which will help offset the loss of the Bonus Action while casting Hunter's Mark at the beginning of each combat.
+ Darkvision, plus being invisible to enemies' darkvision for extra stealth shenanigans.
+ 16 Wisdom, so can potentially have attack/save spells known, although I'll almost always be reserving my limited spell slots for Hunter's Mark.
- No cantrips, and spells refresh on Long Rest, so only three spells total per day.
- Delays Monk progression for 3 levels.
- Doesn't come online until level 9.


C) Don't multiclass, and just take Magic Initiate (Warlock) at Monk 4 or Monk 8.
+ Hex.
+ 2 cantrips.
+ Doesn't detract from my Monk progression.
+ By level 8/9, would be up 2-3 Ki over one of the multiclass options, which effectively offsets the 2 point "Ki tax" for Darkvision at that point.
+ Available as early as level 4.
- Darkvision is still reliant on Ki, can be dispelled, and only lasts 8 hours.
- Only 1 Hex/day.
- No other additional abilities/spells.
- Only 13 Charisma, so no Eldritch Blast.
- Costs one Ability Score Increase.


What are your thoughts?
 
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CTurbo

Explorer
Three levels of Gloom Stalker is REALLY strong for a Shadow Monk. Even moreso if you're able to use the Revised Ranger. That would be my pick hands down.

Another option is to take 3 levels of Rogue. Expertise, Cunning Action, and 2d6 sneak damage is very good on a Shadow Monk. Cunning Action frees up you ki for more FoB.

Assassin gives you a devastating first turn and Scout makes you the ultimate skirmisher.
 

I have a Variant Human Shadow Monk with the following stats: 10 18 14 8 16 13 and the Mobile Feat.

It has a couple of deficiencies, that I'd like to plan towards correcting in the future:
1) Lack of innate darkvision. For someone who specializes in skulking around in dark areas, this is a problem. I can cast Darkvision on myself for 2 Ki, but that's taking away from other Ki-driven abilities.
2) Low-ish damage. More attacks, but middling damage, compared to stouter melee fighters, sneak-attacking rogues, and spell slingers. This gap will only increase in the mid-levels.

I'd also like to add a bit of extra out of combat utility, if possible.



It seems I have three main options:

A) Multiclass into Warlock for 2 levels after Monk 6. (This seems to be the "default choice" for most Shadow Monks.)
+ Low-level patron bonus(es).
+ 2 cantrips.
+ Hex. Bonus damage on every hit and enemy disadvantage, but requires concentration.
+ Several additional 1st level spells known.
+ Spells refresh on a Short Rest.
+ Devil's Sight. Long range darkvision. Can even see in my magical darkness, although I won't be slinging that around very much, since it hampers the rest of the party too.
+ Additional invocation. I'm thinking at-will Alter Self for out of combat disguising and trickery. Or at-will Silent Image, which combined with my Shadow Monk at-will Minor Illusion can produce moving illusions with sound for out of combat utility.
- Tougher option to role-play into, as I'd need to find the in-story opportunity to make a pact with a patron.
- Only 13 Charisma, so no Eldritch Blast. I'd have to stick to utility spells and cantrips that don't rely on attacks or saves.
- Delays Monk progression for 2 levels.
- Doesn't come online until level 8.



B) Multiclass into Ranger - Gloom Stalker for 3 levels after Monk 6. (I'd prefer the Revised Ranger, but I haven't talked to the DM yet to see if that's an option.)
+ Favored Enemy and Fighting Style. I'm thinking Humanoids and Dueling.
+ Hunter's Mark, for Hex-like extra damage every hit, although without Hex's accompanying disadvantage.
+ Couple of additional 1st level spells known.
+ Initiative bonus.
+ One additional skill proficiency. (Ranger is one of the only multiclass options that grants this.)
+ Extra utility with tracking, terrain, awareness, etc.
+ Extra attack in 1st round of every combat, which will help offset the loss of the Bonus Action while casting Hunter's Mark at the beginning of each combat.
+ Darkvision, plus being invisible to enemies' darkvision for extra stealth shenanigans.
+ 16 Wisdom, so can potentially have attack/save spells known, although I'll almost always be reserving my limited spell slots for Hunter's Mark.
- No cantrips, and spells refresh on Long Rest, so only three spells total per day.
- Delays Monk progression for 3 levels.
- Doesn't come online until level 9.


C) Don't multiclass, and just take Magic Initiate (Warlock) at Monk 4 or Monk 8.
+ Hex.
+ 2 cantrips.
+ Doesn't detract from my Monk progression.
+ By level 8/9, would be up 2-3 Ki over one of the multiclass options, which effectively offsets the 2 point "Ki tax" for Darkvision at that point.
+ Available as early as level 4.
- Darkvision is still reliant on Ki, can be dispelled, and only lasts 8 hours.
- Only 1 Hex/day.
- No other additional abilities/spells.
- Only 13 Charisma, so no Eldritch Blast.
- Costs one Ability Score Increase.


What are your thoughts?

Since you pointed out: spells refresh on short rests...

ki points also refresh on short rests. To get darkvision for 8 hours, just cast it and meditate for an hour. Still 7 hours left.

That said: both multiclass options are nice. being able to see through magical darkness as warlock allows for a lot of mobility, because you can actually jump into your darkness spell. Hex helps damage a lot. Other invocations also seem nice. I think either the shadow invisibility thing or mask of many faces make infiltration actions quite easy.
Gloom stalker ranger aligns well with your stats and hunters mark serves as a great damage enhancer.
I´d do 4 levels of either class at some point to maximize stats.

I think your worst option is taking magic initiate as monk. You lose dex, you only have hex for a single turn. A shadow monk that just increases stats does exceptionally well. Can tell about that from experience in my home game (level 6-8)
 

Salthorae

Imperial Mountain Dew Taster
You mentioned having to find an IC way to make a pact with a patron, Fiend is best for melee, especially with your Cha.

Would you not also have to find a Gloomstalker to train you on how to evade darkroom and see in the dark etc as well? Not sure why one would be easier than another IC if your DM is willing to work with you?

That being said, I always prefer versatility over focus so I would go with something that gives you more spells like Warlock... or even Shadow sorcerer. But then half of my PC’s have Magic Initiate just because spells. But I’m always for story first!

A Shadow Sorcerer would be the easiest to MC onto IC’ly since it could be explained by your existing ties to shadow through the Monk subclass. It awakens something in your blood that you didn’t know before but also explains why you were drawn to the way of shadow.

Maybe not the most Op and doesn’t really help in a fight but probably easiest to explain.

You could also encounter a Shadow demon to Pact with. That is thematic IC, gets you Fiendlock’s nice melee bene’s. Pick up the unlimited falselife invocation, he’s, etc. depends on DM playing ball though.
 

RogueJK

It's not "Rouge"... That's makeup.
ki points also refresh on short rests. To get darkvision for 8 hours, just cast it and meditate for an hour. Still 7 hours left.

I'd considered that, but it seems pretty cheesy. Not sure I'd want to constantly bog the party down with "wait an hour... I gotta rest" constantly. ;)

And that seems like the kind of thing that will eventually annoy a DM too, if abused.

You mentioned having to find an IC way to make a pact with a patron

Would you not also have to find a Gloomstalker to train you on how to evade darkroom and see in the dark etc as well?

Not necessarily. The concept of a Gloomstalker already fits pretty well with his current backstory of extensive training to move in shadows and use them to his advantage at the monastery. The Ranger's skills and abilities, and even more specifically the Gloomstalker's, are a fairly natural extension/expansion of him furthering that "bond" with the darkness and dark terrain as he gains experience.

So the addition of those abilities is a more normal progression from what he can already do, as opposed to something more drastic like a Warlock, which are specifically built around having encountered and made a pact with an otherworldly entity.

Fiend is best for melee, especially with your Cha.

I'm not so sure. I think several of the other 1st level abilities, like Greater Old One's telepathy or Hexblade's Curse, are likely more useful than gaining a sprinkling of temp HP after downing an enemy. I only have a +1 CHA modifier, and only plan on taking 2 levels of Warlock, so that'd only be +3 temp HP after downing an enemy. Not so useful at Level 8+, I think.

Besides, he's a fairly good guy, who isn't really the type to be selling his soul to a Fiend...

(Although that does bring up an interesting alternate Warlock/Monk multiclass combination for a more evil-inclined character, of a Fiend Patron Warlock combined with a Way of the Long Death Monk, for WarlockLvl+CHA Mod+MonkLvl+WIS Mod temp HP for each enemy you down.)
 
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Salthorae

Imperial Mountain Dew Taster
I'm not so sure. I think several of the other 1st level abilities, like Greater Old One's telepathy or Hexblade's Curse, are likely more useful than gaining 2-3 temp HP after downing an enemy. (I only have a +1 CHA modifier, and only plan on taking 2 levels of Warlock.)

Yeah, I forget about Hexblade. It is SOO Much better for any melee Warlock that it seems cheesy to me. Who gets proficiency as a bonus to damage?? seriously. You'd be "wasting" the Hexblades 2nd 1st level ability of using Cha to attack/damage, but it's not that big a waste.

I was actually talking about the Fiendish Vigor invocation which let's you use False Life as a 1st level spell w/o expending a spell slot. That is 1d4+4 Temp hit points... all the time.

if you combine that with Hexblade which actually heals you when you drop your cursed target to 0 rather than grant temp HP... winner winner chicken dinner!

Hex + Hellish Rebuke for those spells known. Fiendish Vigor and Devil's Sight with Monk Darkness makes for a potent attacker.
 

RogueJK

It's not "Rouge"... That's makeup.
Hex + Hellish Rebuke for those spells known.

Why Hellish Rebuke, over something utilitarian like Unseen Servant or Comprehend Languages, or Shield from the Hexblade Patron list?

With only a +1 CHA Mod, my Spell DC would only be 9+Proficiency Bonus. (A DC of merely 12 at 7th level, when I'd take my first Warlock level.)

And I'd only have two 1st level spells per rest. I think I'd be better off using both for Hex most of the time, and having some utility spells on tap for occasional usefulness as needed.
 
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Salthorae

Imperial Mountain Dew Taster
Hellish Rebuke assuming you're short resting after most battles, but maybe that is unrealistic for your games? Even if it's only a DC 12 they still take 1d10 damage as a reaction for hitting you, that's not bad. If they roll poorly, then 2d10 damage as a reaction, no action economy wasted by you, plus you get your normal attacks and hex damage still, heal when they die from hexblade feature and use Fiendish Vigor to keep up those temp hitpoints.

If you want to go utility spells route, don't waste your precious Warlock spells known for that. Either take Ritual Caster (Wizard) feat or take another level of Warlock to grab Pact of the Tome and drop either Fiendish Vigor or Devil's Sight in favor of Book of Ancient Secrets.

I have a Great Old One Warlock in my TBT game who is 6th level and we've come across tons of ritual spell scrolls, so I have almost every Ritual spell that I'm capable of casting (up to 3rd level) from all the classes. At least all the useful ones. (Alarm, Augury, Detect Magic, Identify, Gentle Repose, Leomund's Tiny Hut, Tenser's Floating Disc, Unseen Servant, Water Walking, Water Breathing (redundant since I have the Gift of the Depths Invocation, but yeah). Then I use my Warlock spells for combat. You could do something similar though you'd be limited to 2nd level Ritual spells as a 3rd level Warlock, so no Tiny Hut, or either Water spell).
 

RogueJK

It's not "Rouge"... That's makeup.
If you want to go utility spells route, don't waste your precious Warlock spells known for that. Either take Ritual Caster (Wizard) feat or take another level of Warlock to grab Pact of the Tome and drop either Fiendish Vigor or Devil's Sight in favor of Book of Ancient Secrets.

Is Book of Ancient Secrets even available to a third level Warlock? It has a prerequisite of "Pact of the Tome feature", which you don't get until Level 3. But you choose your first two invocations at Level 2.

I read that to mean that you'd have to wait until you acquire your next invocation at Level 5 to be able to take BoAS.
 

Salthorae

Imperial Mountain Dew Taster
Book of Ancient Secrets does require Pact of the Tome, but you can switch Invocations at each new Warlock level.
Relevant Section said:
Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the invocations you know and replace it with another invocation that you could learn at that level.

If an eldritch invocation has prerequisites, you must meet them to learn it. You can learn the invocation at the same time that you meet its prerequisites. A level prerequisite refers to your level in this class.

So at Level 2 you could have Fiendish Vigor and Devil Sight, then when you take level 3, gain Pact of the Tome, drop...say Devil Sight and take Book of Ancient Secrets.

Taking Pact of the Tome and Book of Ancient Secrets will give you 3 cantrips from any class list + 2 Ritual Spells from Any class list. Then you just need to find scrolls or spell books to scribe additional rituals spells into your book.
 

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