Sacred Fist in Waterdeep: Future Subclass? - Page 3
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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Parmandur View Post
    Nope: somebody asked Mearls on Twitter if any changes were planned for the Four Elements Monk, and Mearls suggested they play the Sun Soul as no changes were forthcoming.

    The Errata that Crawford mentioned seem to have to do with followers and animals that are befriended, not any class features.
    Mearls said to reskin a Sun Soul, but didn't explicitly say there weren't going to be any changes. And in the same tweet he even admitted that ki costs for the 4E Monk are too much.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Gladius Legis View Post
    Mearls said to reskin a Sun Soul, but didn't explicitly say there weren't going to be any changes. And in the same tweet he even admitted that ki costs for the 4E Monk are too much.
    He said people felt like the costs are too much, not that they are in fact off. I doubt it will ever be erratad.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gladius Legis View Post
    The upcoming errata is supposedly addressing certain lackluster features, so maybe the 4E Monk will be given a better Ki to spell conversion rate, and then the Sacred Fist would be designed based off said rebalanced 4E Monk.
    I donít know where you heard that. They talked about an errrata pass to coincide with the colletorís editions, as it had been many years since they did an editing pass.
    But like past errata, I imagine it will just be clarifications and not ďfixesĒ.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by gyor View Post
    Honestly I don't find the 4 elements monk to be that bad, it's magic functions, like a minor multi class into Warlock. Never understood the dislike the subclass gets.
    Itís an option thing.
    You get more uses for ki that make it more variable and powerful. But itís still just expanding options for a resource pool rather than outright gaining more resources and powers. It feels more lateral.
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester David View Post
    Itís an option thing.
    You get more uses for ki that make it more variable and powerful. But itís still just expanding options for a resource pool rather than outright gaining more resources and powers. It feels more lateral.
    It does offer one power that doesn't use ki and functions like a mix of the elemental can trips from XGTE and EEPG.

    And being about to toss fireballs now and a gain makes the 4Elements Monk good at something other Monks aren't, minion removal and area of effects magic.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by gyor View Post
    It does offer one power that doesn't use ki and functions like a mix of the elemental can trips from XGTE and EEPG.

    And being about to toss fireballs now and a gain makes the 4Elements Monk good at something other Monks aren't, minion removal and area of effects magic.
    I agree. Itís a fine subclass thatís adequately balanced. But thatís not how people see it. More options was not enough to satisfy them.
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester David View Post
    I agree. Itís a fine subclass thatís adequately balanced. But thatís not how people see it. More options was not enough to satisfy them.
    Based on listening to the Happy Fun Hour recently, the conclusion that WotC has made about the 4E Mono and the whole Ranger Class is that people react badly to what is, mathematically speaking, just fine due to an overwhelming set of options of dubious payoff.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Parmandur View Post
    Based on listening to the Happy Fun Hour recently, the conclusion that WotC has made about the 4E Mono and the whole Ranger Class is that people react badly to what is, mathematically speaking, just fine due to an overwhelming set of options of dubious payoff.
    Bodes poorly tbh. Ranger's primary features are poorly designed (favored enemy, primeval awareness, natural explorer).

    Not trying to get us sidetracked on that though; the point is that presentation is a part of design. If people are reacting badly to it, something isn't in accord with their expectations, even if mechanically it checks out.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesstreissand View Post
    Bodes poorly tbh. Ranger's primary features are poorly designed (favored enemy, primeval awareness, natural explorer).

    Not trying to get us sidetracked on that though; the point is that presentation is a part of design. If people are reacting badly to it, something isn't in accord with their expectations, even if mechanically it checks out.
    Right, which is why WotC has worked on other options: don't like the 4E, try the Sun Soul, and alternate Ranger approaches are being considered. I don't think the Ranger will be completely righted until a 6E, frankly, when they can build it again for Core. For now, alternate Class features and Subclasses are being offered.
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