You are still looking at it through the lens of combat being the only way to interact with the villain. I think that is the heart of the problem.
Dragon Heist TPK
You are still looking at it through the lens of combat being the only way to interact with the villain. I think that is the heart of the problem.
If the NPC is scripted to run, this looks like very typical bad scripting. They could at least have had him 'saunter'.
GameOgre
Adventurer
The encounter is bad. It's not the first time D&D made a bad encounter and it isnt THAT big a deal. I was just shocked that the online reaction to it seems to be"Doesn't matter what the rules of the game are just do what you want" when it comes to saving the party.
Also no the foe isn't telegraphed in any way.The pc's don't find out about him until they see him but yes he is indeed identifiable as a BIG BAD the party shouldn't mess with. It's just players man, showing a player something he shouldn't mess with is just ASKING for trouble.
To be honest it was a lot like Hoard of the Dragon Queens early Dragon Encounter in that they put a powerful monster to be faced by a 1st level party but didn't expect you to truly fight it. Its just in this case they did a far worse job of making sure the party truly couldn't harm the high CR monster and that it wouldn't wipe the floor with the party.
Both encounters were Bad.
Also no the foe isn't telegraphed in any way.The pc's don't find out about him until they see him but yes he is indeed identifiable as a BIG BAD the party shouldn't mess with. It's just players man, showing a player something he shouldn't mess with is just ASKING for trouble.
To be honest it was a lot like Hoard of the Dragon Queens early Dragon Encounter in that they put a powerful monster to be faced by a 1st level party but didn't expect you to truly fight it. Its just in this case they did a far worse job of making sure the party truly couldn't harm the high CR monster and that it wouldn't wipe the floor with the party.
Both encounters were Bad.
Gradine
The Elephant in the Room (she/her)
But the thing is the creature in question is specifically listed as not trying to kill the party; it's first and only goal is to run. If it has to knock some/all of the party unconscious to do that, it will, but the PCs should not at any point end up dead because of it.
To be fair this is true of most encounters a 1st level party is expected to encounter.
This... this is kind of what the adventure expects of you. This is not a kick-down-the-door kill-the-orcs loot-the-bodies adventure. Your actions in the city are beholden to the laws of the city, and that includes things like... murder. The PCs are newcomers to a city filled with established powers. They have their own goals to pursue, but it's impressed upon the players (or at least should be, if the GM were actually following the adventure) that they should step on as few toes as possible in pursuit of their goals; and that the villains are operating under similar constraints.
I fixed this.
Edit: I'll note that sometimes an encounter goes bad, not because the GM hasn't done a good job of setting up expectations regarding it/the adventure/general play, but because the players are actively ignoring that set up and get themselves in over their heads in spite of knowing better. Of course, the book has multiple solutions for what happens when a party gets wiped out and none of them involve the PCs getting killed.
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MNblockhead
A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
I can see your point of view and I think a lot of folks in Adventurer's League are going to run into this issue with this AP.
But I love it.
There are plenty of reasons a powerful NPC would run from the fight. First, most powerful people got to where they are at by not getting into unnecessary fights and not under-estimating opponents. Even weakling get lucky.
Also, depending on the NPC, there could be reputational damage for killing the PCs.
IRL violent urban encounters, few fights result in a fight to the death or even a fight until one is down. There are plenty of scenarios where someone would fight enough to open the way to an escape.
Unless you want to put the party on tracks, you have to let them occasionally run into foes they cannot beat. Sometimes it is obvious right away. Dragon? Run! Other times that beggar in the street is an extremely powerful cleric who took a vow of poverty and mendicancy.
The party, sometime, will not learn that they are out of their depth until they are in the thick of it. If they try to disengage and dash away, there are plenty of reasons that the more powerful foe may let them.
All of your complaints leveled against Dragonheist based on this encounter only make me more interested in running it. That is not to say that it isn't bad for YOUR playstyle. Maybe it is not the right kind of adventure for you and/or your players. That said, it should be too hard to adjust things to make it better fit your group's preferred playstyle.
Good luck with the rest of the campaign, I hope you all have a great time!
Greg Benage
Legend
This seems extraordinarily unlikely unless you made a mistake.
OBVIOUS SPOILERS BELOW
When the PCs enter the straight corridor leading into the hall where the villain is located, they are 80 feet away. The villain has 120-ft. darkvision. The villain likely doesn't have line-of-sight for the full 80 feet due to stairs, but he can still see them in the corridor before they even get to the hall. There is no where for them to hide in the corridor, so they can't approach by stealth. If they are using a light source, so much the worse.
Once they enter the hall, the PCs are still 40 feet away from the villain. The "low-level boss" the PCs need to deal with to complete their mission is between them and the "villain." He has better sight lines down the corridor and 60-ft. darkvision. The villain has a "pet" that also runs interference for him. The pet has 60-ft. blindsight and Speed 40.
The villain has AC 15, 71 hp, and plane shift. He has the ability to, uh, turn any PC who gets in his way into an ally, and the DM is specifically instructed that this is what he will do. The DM is told that the villain leaves "upon seeing the adventurers."
To reiterate, the encounter specifically states the villain wants to escape. Given the situation, there is approximately nothing a 1st-level party can do to stop him. Therefore, the villain TPKs the party only if the DM changes the rules of engagement.
ETA: In fairness, if the PCs "took the back way in," I can see how the situation could be more fraught. Given the villains capabilities, however, even this couldn't prevent him from leaving whenever he wants.
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Greg Benage
Legend
If the NPC is scripted to run, this looks like very typical bad scripting. They could at least have had him 'saunter'.
He literally "glides." It's the aberrant equivalent of a saunter.
Blue
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
He literally "glides." It's the aberrant equivalent of a saunter.
Ah, at least he's an aberrant, so there's something telegraphed that he's not joe dude. From the OP that's never discussed.
GameOgre
Adventurer
They did take the back way in and did 88 points of damage before the first bad guy got to go for the round and then he was engaged with multiple enemies.
However, Not till your post did I go look up Plan Shift and was surprised to see it has a casting time of one action. This is where I went wrong. I could have indeed used that to let him escape and not destroyed the party. I didn't realize that the casting time was so short.
Just finished that chapter, and while they do say the mind flayer heads off when the PCs arrive, it’s all a bit meh as far as a scene goes. The mind flayer doesn’t really care that some PCs infiltrated the secret hideout?
I’d expect some repartee at least: “oh look, some foolish creatures have come to rescue this worthless dreg. Deal with them!” and then off it goes or something.
It’s a bit lackluster.
I’d expect some repartee at least: “oh look, some foolish creatures have come to rescue this worthless dreg. Deal with them!” and then off it goes or something.
It’s a bit lackluster.
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