Toril as a Counter-Earth

Thomas Bowman · Oct 24, 2018

Suppose Toril was plane shifted to our Solar System as a Counter-Earth, with a sphere of wildspace surrounding it about 800,000 miles in radius, its moon Selune orbiting within that sphere. A spelljamming ship can fly around within that sphere, visit Selune and the tears of Selune within, but if it ventures out beyond the 800,000 mile limit, it loses its magic, its gravity and its atmospheric envelope, and everybody onboard dies due to exposure to vacuum. Since this planet appears on the opposite side of the Sun from Earth, no one immediately notices, however the gravitational effects of this planet's sudden appearance diverts the paths of some near Earth asteroids, and astronomers on Earth begin to notice these deviations after a few months, after their curiosity develops they train the cameras of some Mars orbiting space probes on the opposite side of the Sun from Earth and discover a new planet, a counter-Earth, spectrographic analysis determines that the atmosphere is breathable to humans and the mass of the planet is nearly identical to Earth. Now lets say this happens next year during the summer of 2019, on June 21st to be exact. NASA scientists are puzzled, and there is some talk about sending a space probe and eventually some astronauts. Elon Musk says that the BFR he is developing could land on the planet, and he asks for some government funding to accelerate the development of his rocket. Meanwhile NASA launches a space probe using a Falcon Heavy etc.

How soon would Earth humans land on Toril? what do you think would happen then? What's your opinion. Assuming there is a sphere 800,000 miles radius where magic operates within but not without.

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Derren · Oct 24, 2018

40 years? 50? Probably more.

Basically you first need to send a lot of probes over there once it is discovered that there is water on the new planet. When those probes pick up that the planet is in fact inhabited by humans the ethical debates will start which will delay any attempt to land there for decades, if not more.
And even if it is decided to land something on the surface you have the same problems with sending things to Mars. Only a one way trip mission would be a lot more feasible as people could live there unaided. But if that is attempted they will likely pick a uninhabited area or island to settle and gather more information.

Thomas Bowman · Oct 25, 2018

Derren said:
40 years? 50? Probably more.

Basically you first need to send a lot of probes over there once it is discovered that there is water on the new planet. When those probes pick up that the planet is in fact inhabited by humans the ethical debates will start which will delay any attempt to land there for decades, if not more.
And even if it is decided to land something on the surface you have the same problems with sending things to Mars. Only a one way trip mission would be a lot more feasible as people could live there unaided. But if that is attempted they will likely pick a uninhabited area or island to settle and gather more information.

SpaceX might go there, they are a private company not a government agency, they can launch their own spaceships, also a planet suddenly appearing out of nowhere would imply an extraterrestrial civilization, they won't be thinking about magic but about some superadvanced technology and first contact with an alien species, maybe something capable of producing wormholes.

Now think about what the inhabitants of Toril would be thinking. Elminster would probably be worried, the stars are suddenly different, there are different planets in the sky. Ships at sea would get lost as the stars in the sky would not match the stars on their charts. The farmer probably wouldn't give a shrug, and would wonder what all these learned people, the sages, the wizards and the nobles are all upset about. The typical peasant probably doesn't pay much attention to the planets or stars, so long as the Sun rises and sets, and the Moon shines in the sky, that is all they care about. The Clerics would be praying to their gods trying to find out just what happened. Otherwoise everything else is as it always has been. Ordinary people have more immediate concerns than changes in the constellations.

EmmaOlivia · Oct 25, 2018

Is there another planet like Earth?
I love to learn about space and cosmos and aliens stuff. It's always interested me. I love astronomy. But I don't think I've ever heard r apid tone about any other planets out there that may be like another Earth, you know, like with water and similiar temeratures. If you've heard of anything or know a good website or magazine to look at about it, tell me.

Thomas Bowman · Oct 25, 2018

Obviously its a role playing game set up. The only way magic exists is if we're living in a computer simulation with magic programmed in, like the movie Ready Player One or the Matrix. For all we know, this could be a computer simulation, if it was done right, it would be impossible to tell from reality, something inconsistent like magic or planets popping up out of nowhere would be another likely indicator that we are living in a simulated Universe. So far, nothing like that has ever happened yet, but who says it couldn't?

Eltab · Oct 25, 2018

Thomas Bowman said:
Now think about what the inhabitants of Toril would be thinking.

"Those ----- Wizards on the farther Coast have written 6e ALREADY ?!"

Blue · Oct 25, 2018

I think we'd go there within the decade. I think that some countries would be overwhelmed and want to get in their claims, and those would override the current UN agreements. A whole 'nother planet full of breathable atmosphere, terrestrial food, and resources? Is there a bigger prize within the next 50 years?

I don't think they'd believe "magic" until it was more directly observed, though there might be "unexplained phenomena" of things that were observed via probe.

To introduce a factor that comes up in many novels, do you think our technology will function properly in the magic zone? It's based on out understanding of the universe, and that wouldn't support magic - so are the physical laws different within that 800K mi radius?

Tristissima · Oct 25, 2018

Within that 800,000 mile radius, magic works ~ which implies by lack of mention that cross-planar travel, messaging/divination, and magicks would still work within that radius. Does that then indicate that powerful epic magicks, such as those cast by Mystra and her Chosen (I never read 4e or 5e stuff ~ I think she's dead or something? So her replacement), could contact us? Hell, does it mean standard, if powerful, magics that could normally cross planar boundaries would be able to reach us here on Earth? Because that would likely change things . . . .

Also, iirc, Ed's original idea for the setting, and the reason for its name, is that Toril or parts of it used to be part of Earth. Realms which have now been forgotten. Besides the divinities with names ripped right out of Norse and Finnish stories, the most notable example is the Mulhorandi and Untherese who were quite literally Egyptian and Sumerian (with some Akkadian) people, respectively, brought to Toril by the Imaskari as slaves.

What would the Red Wizards (descendants of Mulan separatists) think of modern, Muslim, Egypt? Or the Aglarondi half-elves of the once-Utherese southern coast when they learn about the Ba'ath party and both Iraq Wars?

Derren · Oct 25, 2018

Blue said:
I think we'd go there within the decade. I think that some countries would be overwhelmed and want to get in their claims, and those would override the current UN agreements. A whole 'nother planet full of breathable atmosphere, terrestrial food, and resources? Is there a bigger prize within the next 50 years?

I don't think they'd believe "magic" until it was more directly observed, though there might be "unexplained phenomena" of things that were observed via probe.

To introduce a factor that comes up in many novels, do you think our technology will function properly in the magic zone? It's based on out understanding of the universe, and that wouldn't support magic - so are the physical laws different within that 800K mi radius?

Considering that it is likely harder to reach a planet sitting on the other side of the sun with the same orbit as earth than it would be to reach Mars I doubt that 10 years would be enough for any big mission. A probe yes, but nothing more.

Blue · Oct 25, 2018

Derren said:
Considering that it is likely harder to reach a planet sitting on the other side of the sun with the same orbit as earth than it would be to reach Mars I doubt that 10 years would be enough for any big mission. A probe yes, but nothing more.

Historically look at how much the US developed in term of spaceflight when JFK announced we would go to the moon within a decade. I think the size of the prize would make this happen.

Consider nations willing to do what they are talking about with Mars about sending a one-way flight.

Add in that they don't need to carry supplies for there, and many types of supplies (oxygen, etc.) can be replenished on Toril for a return trip IF whatever nation wants to make it round trip in the first push. I'm sure that they could find people willing to go one way, able to report findings to a satellite in orbit to relay radio messages back to earth.