Campaign Settings and DM Strictures, the POLL

On a scale from 1-5, with 1 being no restrictions by the DM and 5 being DM fiat, how free should a D

  • 1. DM should not enforce any restrictions that are not in the rules books.

    Votes: 3 1.8%
  • 2. DM should only enforce restrictions based on selections from the rules books (e.g., only PHB).

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • 3. DM may make restrictions based on the campaign, so long as they are known ahead of time.

    Votes: 55 32.9%
  • 4. DM may make restrictions for other reasons (ex.- no evil characters).

    Votes: 69 41.3%
  • 5. DM may make restrictions on characters for any reason whatsoever, even after character creation.

    Votes: 36 21.6%
  • I am just a caveman; your world frightens and confuses me.

    Votes: 3 1.8%

I don’t think a DM determined setting really helps with continuity, to be honest. It helps with set things a certain way before they even come into play. Which can be what leads to continuity conflicts, very often. Not necessarily so, but if things are not set, then they can be established whenever they’re needed.
I'm a bit more particular, having done a couple homebrew settings and really looking into the art of worldbuilding in order to do a blog series (that became a book).
It's pretty easy to look at official WotC settings and see awkwardness. Impossible rivers in Greyhawk. The tiny, tiny size of Ansalon in Dragonlance. Peaceful agrarian nations next to expansionist conquerors in the Forgotten Realms. A river that flows from a sea to a sea in Ravenloft.
And that's before considering unnatural terrain like verdant forests where there should be arid plains and desert where there should be rainforest and the like.

Because I've done so much of that, I'm very aware of those details so they jump out at me, like a dead pixel on a monitor. And when doing communal worldbuilding, it's so much easier to just make those "mistakes".

Having said that, I don’t have any problem with a DM creating a setting ahead of time. I’ve played in games like that, and I’ve run games like that. I’ve shifted away from it mostly due to time constraints...and what I’ve found is that a lot of the worries that led me to play that way were unfounded. This is largely why I’m suggesting that DMs be as flexible as players are expected to be when it comes to this topic.
My world evolved because I was playing Organized Play and had a lot of free time at work. And I've just kept adding to it, typically when on a break from DMing.
Because I keep using the same setting again and again, telling stories in different regions, it's less work now.

So the tortle didn’t ruin the vibe? I mean, they’re a pretty cartoonish race. I would expect them to be a perfect example of a race that wouldn’t be allowed by many DMs. But this would be a perfect example of what I’m advocating....the player has a desire that doesn’t seem to fit perfectly with the DM’s idea, but they make it work.
They're a little silly but no more than any of the other bajillion "beast people" in D&D.

We already have hyena people, lizard people, toad people (who are different from the frog people), two types of fish people, hippo people, crow people (who are different from the generic bird people), several types of dinosaur people, lobster people, dragon people, horse people, bull people, elephant people, two types of spider people, tiger people, cat people, and snake people.
And that's just in 5e. And *most* of those are playable races!
Given the low population numbers of medieval worlds, most of these species should really only have a few thousand members, and be functionally endangered species.

In terms of my setting, the world is also tidally locked. So there's no oceans. And the playable region is relatively small. Working in the tortles was going to be tricky. But the player offered some suggestions for a location and implied he was one of only a few, so I wasn't forcing in a large population.
Which helps, and shows me that the player is also willing to put in some effort rather than just mandating a character and expecting me to do all the work.

I do have a question though...what’s would be an example of an impure motive?
Again, making a character that is unusual in order to be unique and special without having to put in the work of actually thinking of something unique. Being the "last XXX" is common way of doing this, as is being the "good drow".

I'm also not prone to adding content for min/maxing reasons. I don't much care if the "X" from splatbook "Y" is the most optimal choice for a character.

Just to ask...do you think that your effort in this regard is why you view the idea of a player wanting something contrary to what you’ve written as being difficult in some way?

I’ve found it’s harder to change things once they’re written down.
For my own homebrew, I tend not to say "x doesn't exist". I leave gaps so I can add tortles if I need to. And I try to accomodate my players when possible.

I'm harder when it comes to established D&D settings. Like Dragonlance. When I ran a Dragonlance campaign the point was to play in that world, through those adventures, with its tropes. To embrace the world and what made it unique and different. And part of that was the racial limitations: no halflings, no orcs, no drow, no dragonborn.
I didn't also need to shoe-horn in races just because a player couldn't wait eight months for the adventure to end to play a half-orc.

Yeah, I agree with all this. I’m not saying that everything should be allowed in every game all the time. Just that when such a conflict does come up, both the player and DM need to consider changing their view. Ideally, they’d talk it out and find a suitable solution. Each of them should examine the reasons for their view and thibk about how it will actually affect the game.
Right. Agreed.
But if the DM changes their view by default, how is that different from allowing everything all the time? The DM needs to be able to say "no". And players need to be able to accept that "no".

In practice, I'm a soft sell. I'll allow my players almost anything and make exceptions readily. But I also know my players and we have trust.
But as a general rule, I think it's better to assume that "no" and have the default be options and optional. Empower the DM.
Because if the baseline is "no" and the DM says "yes" they're a hero while if the baseline is "yes" and the DM says "no" they're a monster.
 

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DM: Okay the new campaign is about to begin.

Player: Cool, I was thinking of going old school...gnome illusionist! Been thinking about it a lot, actually.

DM: Well too bad, chump....gnomes don’t exist in this campaign world!!!

Player: What? Really? Why?

DM: Because I want the game to be super serious and gnomes are silly! Just silly to their little fey bones!!!

Player: But I can be an elf or a dwarf?

DM: Of course!

Player: But they’re really just as silly, aren’t they? And halflings?

DM: No cuz Tolkien.

Player: You really think a gnome will mess things up that bad? I mean, I’m gonna play him serious....

DM: Noooo! They’re never serious! They have pointy ears and tinker with gadgets! GADGETS! In a fantasy setting!

Player: Elves have pointy....

DM: TOLKIEN I SAID!

Player: .....okay, are you writing a book or are we playing a game?

DM: Both! Isn’t that awesome? You guys will play the characters in my book. I’ve detailed an entire world for your enjoyment.

Player: I’d enjoy if there was a gnome illusionist in there.

DM (twitching visibly): But I am gifting you with my brilliant creativity! Thank me for all my effort!

Player: but really I’d just....

DM: THANK ME!!!

Player: um thanks?

DM (sighs audibly): You’re welcome! Now, let’s begin. Make sure to tell me how creative my setting is!
I can’t help but think “gnomes” have sliiiiightly different cultural associations than elves and dwarves:

162621AF-DDE2-4E02-8DB4-967429DE595D.png

I mean, I love my gnome bard in 3e. But gnomes have always been an oddball race. There’s a reason they were dumped in 4e at the start.
 

hawkeyefan

Legend
I can’t help but think “gnomes” have sliiiiightly different cultural associations than elves and dwarves:


I mean, I love my gnome bard in 3e. But gnomes have always been an oddball race. There’s a reason they were dumped in 4e at the start.

In my campaign, if you want to play an elf, you either have to live in a tree and make cookies or live in the arctic and make toys.

:p
 

Mort

Legend
Supporter
In my campaign, if you want to play an elf, you either have to live in a tree and make cookies or live in the arctic and make toys.

:p

I'm honestly considering, next time I start a new campaign, not allowing elves as a PC race and introducing the PCs to Terry Pratchett style elves nice and early - just to totally freak them out.
 


oreofox

Explorer
Sure, but at least elves have the mythological origins AND Tolkien.

Can you think of any major gnomes in fantasy fiction?

David the Gnome! While he looked like those in the image you provided, he wasn't a super silly jokester.

Other than that, I can't really think of one outside of D&D games. Though gnomes in mythology were more like what most think of dwarves: miners obsessed with gems and made from dirt and stone (they were the earth equivalent of salamanders when it came to elemental creatures).
 

clearstream

(He, Him)
My position would be #4 - pretty much any restrictions are fair game, but they really should be clearly stated ahead of time.
Agreed. Ideally restrictions are tied to the campaign and made ahead of time.
Well sure, if you push me on it, there could be reasons for other restrictions outside of that.
You know what, I'll just do whatever I think makes the game good.
.
.
.
Hence, 5, but that should be rarer than 3 and 4.
 

clearstream

(He, Him)
DM: Okay the new campaign is about to begin.

Player: Cool, I was thinking of going old school...gnome illusionist! Been thinking about it a lot, actually.

DM: Well too bad, chump....gnomes don’t exist in this campaign world!!!

Player: What? Really? Why?

DM: Because I want the game to be super serious and gnomes are silly! Just silly to their little fey bones!!!

Player: But I can be an elf or a dwarf?

DM: Of course!

Player: But they’re really just as silly, aren’t they? And halflings?

DM: No cuz Tolkien.

Player: You really think a gnome will mess things up that bad? I mean, I’m gonna play him serious....

DM: Noooo! They’re never serious! They have pointy ears and tinker with gadgets! GADGETS! In a fantasy setting!

Player: Elves have pointy....

DM: TOLKIEN I SAID!

Player: .....okay, are you writing a book or are we playing a game?

DM: Both! Isn’t that awesome? You guys will play the characters in my book. I’ve detailed an entire world for your enjoyment.

Player: I’d enjoy if there was a gnome illusionist in there.

DM (twitching visibly): But I am gifting you with my brilliant creativity! Thank me for all my effort!

Player: but really I’d just....

DM: THANK ME!!!

Player: um thanks?

DM (sighs audibly): You’re welcome! Now, let’s begin. Make sure to tell me how creative my setting is!
Player: I enjoy gnomes and therefore you must enjoy them too.
DM: You know I don't enjoy gnomes because I find them jarring. Especially for the kind of grittier fantasy I like to play?
Player: I enjoy gnomes and therefore you must enjoy them too.
DM: And you know I get to run one game, one night a week. The rest of the time I'm working or doing chores. It's important to me to enjoy that game.
Player: I enjoy gnomes and therefore you must enjoy them too.

It pays to remember that the DM is a participant in the hobby, and actually allowed to make decisions around "wanting to enjoy themselves". I know some groups prefer to create an entirely shared fiction, while others take the story-teller approach where, often, the DM does a lot of background work for each session. It can be far more of a wrench for a DM of the latter type to incorporate unwanted races into their fiction, than for a player to choose a different race to play.

On the other hand, I just ran a long campaign of Out of the Abyss, in which the hard-pressed deep gnomes of Blingdenstone were absolute heroes. The valiant small folk endeared themselves to the players, only to be ruthlessly crushed by the demon lords. Well before that, in our first session, a player asked to play a gnome. I allowed it, with the proviso that they were from some obscure part of the Underdark with little knowledge of Blingdenstone, the Dark Lake, or surrounds. During the escape from the drow in Velkynvelve, the character turned back to help a friend (NPC). Neither was ever seen again. I tracked that gnome for a time (as a retired character), in case an opportunity arose for the player to pick it up again (say, if their new character died). Through some unexpected twists and turns, the gnome ended up in the Abyss.

Which is the best place for gnomes, on balance.
 

Laurefindel

Legend
All of these example are more examples of being a jerk - which we can all agree can happen on both sides of the DM’s screen - than examples of how thematic restrictions work or don’t work in D&D.
 

hawkeyefan

Legend
Sure, but at least elves have the mythological origins AND Tolkien.

Can you think of any major gnomes in fantasy fiction?

No, not a one. I think that’s likely because they’re pretty much interchangeable with dwarves or goblins in mythology. The decision to have them as a separate race in D&D seems pretty odd. I suppose the gnome had its own entry in one of the books Gygax used for inspriation.

I’m honestly not a big fan of the D&D gnomes. They seem redundant. But I’ve had players make some gnome characters over the years that I’ve enjoyed.
 

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