Elven Accuracy wording vs maths - sanity check

MarkB

Legend

• Jan 1, 2019

• #1

I'm building a character who has Elven Accuracy, and this will be the first time I've used it. I understand how it's supposed to work - if you have advantage on an attack based on one of the specified abilities, you roll the attack normally but can then re-roll one of the dice and take the replacement value as being one of your two d20 rolls for the attack.

My question is, isn't that mathematically equivalent to just rolling 3d20 and taking the highest result?

The ability has no per-rest limits, so there's never going to be a time when I say "okay, one of the dice was an 18, I'm definitely going to hit, so I'll hold off using Elven Accuracy on this attack so I have it available later." Nor, barring some meta-gamey circumstance where my character is charmed into attacking an ally and I want to turn a hit into a miss, will there ever be a good reason to choose to re-roll the higher of my two results rather than the lower. The only time I'd refrain from using it is if I've already rolled a natural 20 on the initial roll.

Is there something I've missed, or is it simpler and mathematically identical to just roll 3d20 for an Advantage attack in the first place?

 

log in or register to remove this ad

U

UngeheuerLich

Legend

• Jan 1, 2019

• #2

It is the equivalent of 3d20 because you can really do no harm rerolling the lower one. There are maybe a few edge cases with different abilities affecting rolls.
One of the halfling feats from Xanathar's guide (second chance) have you reroll a roll. Since you are only officially having two rolls, it is slightly better for the halfling because if the elf hits twice and tries to crit fish rerolling one roll and miss, the halfling can make you also reroll the second one which might make you miss although you initially hit with both rolls. If you had just rolled 3 times the halfling would have been out of luck.

Actually I might change elven accuracy to allow you to reroll a roll if you have disadvantage on the roll. That might be more balanced.

 

R

Ristamar

Adventurer

• Jan 1, 2019

• #3

It's generally the same in most applications. If you're crit fishing out of desperation or bravado, you could turn a hit into miss via the reroll.

 

W

WhosDaDungeonMaster

Guest

• Jan 1, 2019

• #4

I preferred it in UA before it got to Xanthar's Guide. I told my player, upon reading the revised version, that the third roll only applies to the ability score you chose, not all of them. So, if he picks Dex, he can only roll a third die for Dex ranged attacks, not the Int-based, Wis-based, and Chr-based as well.

Personally, I think casters have enough and might revert to the Dex-only version anyway.

 

MarkB

Legend

• Jan 1, 2019

• #5

Ristamar said:

It's generally the same in most applications. If you're crit fishing out of desperation or bravado, you could turn a hit into miss via the reroll.

Click to expand...

I really don't see how. You can only ever re-roll one of your dice, so if one is a hit and the other is a miss you'll re-roll the one that would miss. Then you'll take the higher of either the result of the re-roll or the result on the die you didn't re-roll.

 

R

Ristamar

Adventurer

• Jan 1, 2019

• #6

MarkB said:

I really don't see how. You can only ever re-roll one of your dice, so if one is a hit and the other is a miss you'll re-roll the one that would miss. Then you'll take the higher of either the result of the re-roll or the result on the die you didn't re-roll.

Click to expand...

Yeah... yeah, that was last night's alcohol doing math and logic.

Don't mind me. I'm heading back to bed now.

 

U

UngeheuerLich

Legend

• Jan 1, 2019

• #7

MarkB said:

I really don't see how. You can only ever re-roll one of your dice, so if one is a hit and the other is a miss you'll re-roll the one that would miss. Then you'll take the higher of either the result of the re-roll or the result on the die you didn't re-roll.

Click to expand...

As i noted in my post above, another ability like from the second chance feat might turn the second roll in a miss too.

 

TarionzCousin

Second Most Angelic Devil Ever

• Jan 1, 2019

• #8

Only elves and advanced mathematicians (Level 10+) truly understand Elven Accuracy.

 

Tyrfingr

Villager

• Jan 1, 2019

• #9

UngeheuerLich said:

Actually I might change elven accuracy to allow you to reroll a roll if you have disadvantage on the roll. That might be more balanced.

Click to expand...

Numerically, it's the same as just having super advantage. It just changes when you get that super advantage.

https://anydice.com/program/12dd3

Turning what an enemy though was disadvantage (avg roll of 7) on you to super advantage (avg roll of 15) is a large effect.

 

MarkB

Legend

• Jan 1, 2019

• #10

UngeheuerLich said:

As i noted in my post above, another ability like from the second chance feat might turn the second roll in a miss too.

Click to expand...

Second Chance would kick in after you'd rolled the whole thing, and determined whether it was a hit or a miss. You'd then roll the attack again, starting from scratch.

You'd still be rolling with advantage on the re-rolled attack, but you technically wouldn't be able to use Elven Accuracy the second time around because it's still the same attack and you've already re-rolled one of the attack dice once.