Wizard vs. Sorcerer

Umbran · Jan 17, 2019

Al'Kelhar said:
Play anything else, and you're acknowledging that you're a newbie or dumb.

On then wonders - blatantly insulting people who like something you don't, when we have a distinct "Keep it civil" clause in The Rules? What does that acknowledge? That's a rhetorical question, for you to consider.

In any case, do not post in this thread again.

Zardnaar · Jan 17, 2019

Its basically versatility vs power assuming you know how to pick your spells. The Sorcerer is better at buffing and has better saves including the important con save.

Wizard versatility is often over rated though.

1. There is not that many rituals.
2. There are a few spells that get used over and over due to how good they are and Sorcerers can pick most of them.

A ritual is cute but twinned fly, haste, greater invisibility etc that is sheer brute power and unique to the Sorcerer. And they are proficient in con saves.

Wizards are better in the exploration part Sorcerers in combat.

mortwatcher · Jan 17, 2019

Zardnaar said:
Its basically versatility vs power assuming you know how to pick your spells. The Sorcerer is better at buffing and has better saves including the important con save.

Wizard versatility is often over rated though.

1. There is not that many rituals.
2. There are a few spells that get used over and over due to how good they are and Sorcerers can pick most of them.

A ritual is cute but twinned fly, haste, greater invisibility etc that is sheer brute power and unique to the Sorcerer. And they are proficient in con saves.

Wizards are better in the exploration part Sorcerers in combat.

twinned buffs are probably the strongest feature of the sorc, unfortunately, most will just blast with it
I would not underestimate rituals, from top of my head: detect magic, phantom steed, tiny hut, rarys telepathic bond, water breathing (this one is situational, but when that situation occurs, your full plate warrior sinking into the bottom of the lake will REALLY appreciate it) were used on a daily basis, with recasts of find familiar or comprehend languages as need be, we had a bunch of different languages across the party - that's a lot of 'extra spell slots' that would be useful
also having the option to swap spells as situation demands put less pressure on really making sure you chose the good spells or you screw yourself forever

André Soares · Jan 17, 2019

mortwatcher said:
twinned buffs are probably the strongest feature of the sorc, unfortunately, most will just blast with it

THIS IS SO RIGHT!

Twinned haste, bannish, greater inv, hold person/monster can turn a combat around so fast! When I played a chaos sorc my group had a Barbarian and a Paladin, the first time in my life I saw a group that didn't want my to throw fireballs hahahah.

FrogReaver · Jan 17, 2019

Honestly, from an optimization a sorcerer should primarily be using twin spell with buff spells IMO. There’s a few rebuff spells the sorcerer is better with than the wizard as well. Phantasmal force is a great example.

Wizards are the better debuffer as their spell selection can allow them to have the perfect debuff ready for any given situation. They can do this and still have tons of utility and defensive options.

I’m not sure if wizard debuffing is stronger than sorcerer twin spell buffing.

Assuming the relevant debuff works: Twin Haste vs Slow. I’m really not sure which is actually better. Hold person vs twin haste. Again I’m not sure. My guess is that in most situations a wizard can find a debuff that’s situationally as strong as a twin buff spell like haste. At least that should be the way for most of the game. At some point legendary resistance enemies may hurt the wizards ability to debuff too much.

So my conclusion is that really high level sorcerers are stronger in combat than wizards but otherwise wizards are stronger.

GlassJaw · Jan 17, 2019

Zardnaar said:
Wizards are better in the exploration part Sorcerers in combat.

Heh, reminds me of the current Fighter-out-of-combat discussion.

Wizards are good in combat and amazing out of. No doubt that weighing combat power is much easier than versatility in other pillars of the game but wizards have it in spades. The sorcerer's lack of versatility becomes much more evident out of combat.

So if you play in a combat-heavy game, I could see leaning towards sorcerer.

smbakeresq · Jan 17, 2019

If the game you play is just combat or mostly combat with several rests, then Sorcerer is probably better. If it’s 50/50 then Wizard is better. This is due to wizards effectively having a more varied spell selection as Sorcerers have to limit their spells to what they will find effective in combat situations. It’s the utility.

For example, Leomunds Hut is a rare spell for a Sorcerer, but automatic for wizard. Arcane Eye is great for a wizard, almost never a Sorcerer spell. A Sorcerer could take things like that, but if you are you should just go wizard.

Also, nothing a Sorcerer has approaches the diviner ability with Portent. Other wizard abilities are also unique, the Sorcerer abilities modify the spells they already use, making them better.